Bullhorns & Bullseyes Podcast

Coaching Sales for Wins

Guest: Dave Tear

June 03, 2024
Play Video about Dave Tear

Episode 27

Tom and Curtis welcome Dave Tear, owner of Sales Coaches’ Corner, to the podcast to discuss the changing landscape of sales and the importance of having a selling system. They highlight the need for salespeople to focus on opening opportunities rather than closing deals, as well as the value of building rapport and mirroring the prospect. The conversation also touches on the role of technology in sales, the power of effective subject lines in emails, and the importance of understanding the prospect’s pain. In the end, the episode emphasizes the need for sales professionals to adapt to the evolving sales environment and provide value to their prospects. Tune in if you’re a sucker for sports puns!


  • Focus on opening opportunities rather than closing deals
  • Build rapport and mirror the prospect to establish trust
  • Adapt to the changing sales landscape and leverage technology
  • Craft effective subject lines in emails to cut through the clutter
  • Understand the prospect’s pain and provide value

Connect with Dave:

Sales Coaches Corner: ⁠https://www.salescoachescorner.com
LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-tear-693a50266/⁠

Tom Nixon (00:03.824)
Thank you everyone for coming back to another episode of Bullhorns and Bulls Eyes. Curtis, I say we’re on a roll here.

Curtis Hays (00:10.365)
We’re on a roll as far as podcasts go, or are you alluding to something else?

Tom Nixon (00:15.224)
No, I was going to say just the podcast, we’re going to be tackling another episode that deals more with sales than it does marketing. So we are proving that our mission to bridge the divide between sales and marketing is in fact our mission and we’re sticking to it.

Curtis Hays (00:29.221)
It totally is. Yeah, we’ve definitely covered enough on the marketing side and so to bring a sales perspective, I think is important. We’ve got a couple actually in the future here lined up. Um, we should be able to cover a lot on the sales side of things with it, which I think is great.

Tom Nixon (00:44.652)
Yes, and we do need to bring in the experts because I am not an expert at sales by any stretch. Would you consider yourself an expert at sales?

Curtis Hays (00:51.749)
I’m by no means an expert, but I’ve had some great salespeople, uh, in my life, including my wife, Stephanie, who was on a earlier podcast episode, 15 years in account management. Um, her father, uh, owned his own company and was a sales rep for his entire career. And so, you know, surrounding yourself with good people that you can get advice from and today’s guest is also somebody who, uh, trained me.

in my early days in the career of running an agency. And so pretty exciting to have today’s guest on and lots of good insights. We’ve had some previous conversations with guests and I’m like, man, you know what? There’s a person in my life who taught me that exact same thing. And I think we should have him on. So I don’t know, do you think we should introduce our guest today? All right.

Tom Nixon (01:45.596)
I think we should because he knows way more than I do.

Curtis Hays (01:49.713)
Well, we’ve got the great Dave Tier, who is owner of Sales Coaches Corner. And if you want the playbook on how to be successful with sales, Dave, Dave is the coach you need. He’s got the playbook. I don’t know, over 10 years ago, Dave’s got 30 years experience in coaching salespeople. So I think this is somebody we can trust today to give us some insights.

And, um, but yeah, I mean, about 12 years ago, he came in and helped me in the organization I was, I was at helped us, uh, fine tune what we were doing from a sales perspective and helped me feel more comfortable sitting down with. Companies problem solve, relate to them, you know, provide solution oriented.

Uh, stuff and I just learned so many things from him. So, you know, really without further ado, Dave, you know, thanks for accepting the invite. It’s great to have you on the show.

Dave Tear (02:48.77)
Thanks for having me Curtis and Tom. It’s my pleasure and I want your audience to know one thing before we start this 30 years while it’s true What most people don’t know is I started when I was five So you start with your five thirty years you can accomplish a few things

Tom Nixon (03:03.332)
Ha ha!

Curtis Hays (03:07.153)
This is a story I may not know or I don’t remember, so tell us how sales started when you were 5 years old. Was this a lemonade stand or…?

Dave Tear (03:13.582)
I’m having no I’m having fun. I will say this I knew at an early age and some of these some people don’t know this some of these kids coming out of high school don’t know what they want to be when they grow up. I can I can agree to that I didn’t know what I wanted to be when I grew up but I did know.

I didn’t want to do the same thing every day at the same office every day and repeat, right? I knew I wanted to do something and eventually to me that meant sales. So it started at a young age but

I can’t tell you I knew exactly what I wanted to do. No way did I think I would even be doing this at that young age. So it’s a message to the kids out there. And my son struggled for a bit before he found his career is knowing what you want to do. I think sometimes people do themselves a disservice by putting the pressure on themselves to have to have a plan of what they want to do going into school. A lot of those,

And I don’t know how we got on this tangent, but I’m gonna finish it a lot of times

Curtis Hays (04:18.345)
That’s okay.

Dave Tear (04:20.83)
You know, I think I think doctors have a good idea. They want to be a doctor. Lawyers probably have a good idea when they start school. But aside from those two professions, I think it’s OK to have some semesters of clarity to figure it out. And don’t put so much pressure on yourself. I felt bad for my son. He really thought he had to have it all dialed in. And it really screwed his mind for a bit. And thankfully, he found something. He’s doing really well now. But.

Don’t put the pressure on yourself to know what you want to do when you get done with school. A lot of people figure it out while they’re there and it’s totally fine. So there’s enough on that.

Curtis Hays (04:59.601)
Yeah, no, I, I can relate personally myself with my own experiences. As Stephanie’s degree was in marketing communications from Michigan state. She was working for Saturn her first two years after college in marketing. And her, her dad got her an opportunity with a, with a fortune company. They needed an account manager in the Detroit market that nobody wanted to work in because it was Detroit and Toledo. And.

You know, she had some great mentors around her who taught her to build relationships and she became one of the most successful people in the company. So, um, yeah, you don’t, you know, you’ll figure it out. And if sales, I think comes naturally to you and it’s something you can grasp and you’ve got good people around you. Um, you know, I think you can be successful in it and I, I’m excited today for you to share some tips. And because it’s been a while since I’ve learned from you, I’m excited to hear, you know, what’s, what’s new.

Cause the world’s changing from a market sales and marketing perspective. We’re more fragmented. We’re doing more things remote than we’ve ever done previously. Um, yeah, I have very few face to face meetings anymore from a sales perspective. We’re doing it all remote. We’re doing it on teams and go to meetings and zooms and all of that. Selling has changed quite a bit. So we’re excited to hear all of that. Um, Tom, are you getting excited yet? I mean, this isn’t, uh, so much storytelling, marketing, branding.

Dave Tear (05:59.88)
Oh yeah.

Curtis Hays (06:27.499)

Tom Nixon (06:28.032)
Yeah, but I, I love, I, I’ve been sales trained myself. So I went to, um, with your Sandler’s program, Dave, I’m sure you know of it. Um, because I’m not good at, I’m not naturally inclined to do sales. I’m an introvert for one. Um, I’d rather stand in the corner at the party and have somebody come talk to me than go to their corner. So it was never, and I have brothers that are great at sales. My grandfather was great at sales and I just, I’m not wired for it. So I’m interested. Um, and you mentioned.

Dave, I don’t know if many colleges to this day offer like a sales curriculum. And I think they should. So, um, are you finding that? And then I’d like to have you work. Where did you get your training? Is there a foundation in Sandler or something else, or did you develop all of this on your own?

Dave Tear (07:12.17)
Yeah. No, no. The college thing first when I was in school. Right back in the 90s.

Curtis Hays (07:23.893)
I thought that was just 10, 20 years ago you were in school. I know. Because Dave was trying to tell us earlier he’s 35.

Dave Tear (07:26.218)
Well, I started at Central for two years, then I transferred to Eastern for two years. At Central, when I was in school, there was nothing offered for the selling profession. That was then. When I transferred to Eastern, believe it or not, I did have one class. It was called Selling.

Tom Nixon (07:28.14)
getting my timelines all screwed up here.

Tom Nixon (07:34.186)
I’m crying.

Dave Tear (07:55.774)
101 or 201 or 301 whatever taught by a military fell out of Purdue and he put everybody’s test scores on an overhead projector everybody’s presentation videotaped and then a grade on a on an overhead projector so by accident he was teaching us to be competitive and to want to be

Dave Tear (08:26.122)
I will tell you in one semester of learning, it didn’t prepare me to be in sales. Now, both of those schools and Western Michigan and many other schools have a major called selling. You can actually go to school and concentrate on that and come out.

probably better prepared to face this profession than ever before. I always contend it takes a lot of practical application. You have to sit in the seat. If you, if you’re doing it, if you’re learning it, be like learning. The three of us learn how to dunk a basketball over, over a semester, but we’re not basketball players and we don’t go out on the court. We could all pass that test at the end of the semester. We’d know how to dunk a basketball on paper. We’d be great at it.

But I can’t talk a basketball. I’m chubby and I got a broken finger. So I can’t do it, but I learned it and I passed it. So there’s a lot of that needs to be, I believe, it needs to be present for anybody to be screamingly successful in sales because it takes a lot of lumps. Yeah, try something, fail at it, try again, succeed at it, develop a system and continue to do things that work. That’s the value of a system. And what we work on is a selling system.

Quite frankly, we put science to a very artful profession. That’s the value of a system. So if you’re good at following a system, you may be better at sales than you think because if you factor it right down, that’s what we do. Too many people can’t fly off the seat of their pants and be successful. Not enough people can do that. People need a system. Yeah.

Curtis Hays (10:05.954)
Yeah. So that was the playbook you taught me, right, Dave? That was the playbook. So where did that, that’s the second question there then. Where did that come from? So the playbook that you developed, where, foundationally, where did you get a lot of that?

Dave Tear (10:16.714)
Yeah, that, that I’ve been in the business for 30 years. I started my training in, in Southfield with the very successful Michigan franchise of the Sandler sales Institute, fell by the name of Jerry Weinberg. Jerry taught me everything I know. He was my first mentor that I can think of.

Fantastic salesperson, fantastic sales trainer, fantastic sales coach. So I learned from a fantastic guy, not to use fantastic five times in one. Podcast, but I learned from a great, uh, student of the profession.

When I left and opened up Sales Coaches Corner, I wanted to have a theme. I wanted my brand to speak to sports and competitiveness. And I do a lot of correlations. So the playbook came out of something sports related, right? That’s really what it was. And I’ve got material that I’ve developed over the years.

Curtis Hays (11:19.614)

Dave Tear (11:24.942)
that fits real well into what I call chapters. So there’s many, many chapters in the playbook. Whatever is needed for that particular client, that particular sales organization, I pull from material that’s already been developed and has been developed for years. Probably $400 worth of material.

and I don’t discuss all of it every week, but I have a toolbox that is just chalk filled with material because I’ve been studying it for so long and I love it.

Curtis Hays (11:59.677)
Right. So if you’re having trouble closing, you’ve got the chapter on closing that you can come into the organization.

Dave Tear (12:07.506)
You want my response to closing? Because it happens. It happens weekly. It’s at least once every week or every couple of weeks where a sales leader, sometimes owner of a company, president of a company says, hey, Tia, can you help my guys and gals with their closing? It’s very common. We need help closing. We’ve got to close more deals. Can you help us with our closing? Very common question.

Curtis Hays (12:09.647)

Dave Tear (12:35.626)
most often if I had a hundred people that asked me for help with their closing and I inspected a hundred people deeper, none of them would need help with their closing. They would all need help with their opening. It’s very interesting if an opportunity is opened up properly. Closing turns away from an event and more of a next step if you will. Right? If I have to teach people how to close business

good luck. I would struggle very, very much with that proposition. I could teach them how to open, ask the right questions, set expectations, right? Uncover pet spending patterns and have the money conversation, the budget conversation, make sure you’re talking to the right person, get to the right people, the decision maker. I can help companies and people open and then closing becomes the next step formality. But to help somebody close, pppp

Curtis Hays (13:32.934)

Dave Tear (13:33.694)
It’s a it’s a I would never read the 100 ways to close a sale book. That would be a doorstop for me, because nobody’s going to remember 100 steps, 100 things in the heat of the moment. So.

Tom Nixon (13:41.7)
So is.

Tom Nixon (13:45.868)
Dave, would you say it’s true then that if a deal fails, it’s already failed before the close. You just might not know it yet.

Dave Tear (13:53.39)
great way to put it Tom if I’m if I’m afforded the opportunity to coach a client with through a deal I can’t remember in 30 years I can’t remember one time when going back and looking at the deal I didn’t have a discussion about the problem that the prospect thinks they have and that you uncovered

There’s always something relative to not uncovering pain, not uncovering enough pain, not uncovering there’s a commitment to fixing the pain. So not really digging deep into that qualifying category. It’s either that there’s no money to pay for the opportunity or there’s no commitment to spend that much money. So sometimes the conversation never happens. Other times it happens.

But there’s such a gap, right? They think it’s 12. You’re charging 24. Well, we’re so far off, you can’t tell me that opportunity is qualified. They don’t wanna spend the money. That’s not qualified. And then are we talking to the right people? You’d be surprised how many people talk to somebody that’ll talk to them because it’s comfortable.

It’s easy. They return my calls. They’ll go to lunch with me. They return my emails. Often that person can’t make a decision to save his life. They can say no, but to get somebody that doesn’t have authority to say yes. It’s like trying to squeeze blood out of a rock, it just isn’t gonna happen. So there has to be a discipline to qualify the opportunity. Pain, money conversation and decision making process. That’s a qualified opportunity.

those opportunities close because they were opened properly. Right? So, Tom, I’m with you. A lot of times it’s way before the close. It was lost in the second inning.

Tom Nixon (15:50.964)
All right. Yeah.

Tom Nixon (15:59.064)
Yeah. And people are, they don’t want to hear no. So, you know, the longer that they could put off hearing no, the better. Right. And so you’re kicking the…

Curtis Hays (16:06.013)
What’s your saying, Dave? There’s a saying to this of the no, right? Yeah.

Dave Tear (16:10.138)
with no I’ve got a couple of them most is I’ve heard it a million times by the time I’m six years old I’ve heard the word no or some variation of it no stop don’t do that a million by the time we’re set do we want to hear it again no it’s not fun it’s not right so here we are coaching our clients to be comfortable with that word

when they’re their whole life they’ve been told not to be comfortable with it because it’s not comfortable. It’s it’s true, it’s accurate. If you can be comfortable with no, you will be very successful at selling because it won’t rattle you. But a lot of people can’t get through that. They can’t get that lesson.

Ever since they have been grown up, they’ve been taught to succeed, win, yes, make it happen. Nowhere does it say fail 73% of the time and call yourself successful. Nowhere was that taught, but that’s a lot of people’s closing percentage, right? You close a 30% clip, you’re doing well in a lot of industries.

Tom Nixon (17:15.481)
And I know.

Tom Nixon (17:20.108)
I believe Jerry Weinberg’s philosophy is the quicker you can get to know the better. I remember in his radio ads, he would even say it’s difficult. It’s expensive and it’s not for everyone. So that weeds out a lot of bad opportunities right there, right?

Dave Tear (17:24.866)
Set. Yep.

Dave Tear (17:29.646)
That’s right.

Dave Tear (17:34.81)
For a time, Jerry and I, we had a campaign going and I might still have one of the pens around. We were called the No Men. It was the corniest thing ever, but it fit. What are you doing? You gotta do that No Men training. Well, what’s that?

Now, if that didn’t remind us that no is OK, right? It was a fun little campaign. Like, any thing, right? Faster you get to no, the more yeses you’re going to get. And your head will be clean from the rejection. That’s such a nasty thing, right?

Curtis Hays (18:07.465)

Tom Nixon (18:09.42)
Yeah, Curtis, so you mentioned earlier that, um, how much has changed in 20 years and you’re taking meetings. You’re you do sales, right? Whether you consider yourself a salesperson and those are happening sometimes not face to face anymore. So you wanted to pick Dave’s brain about what’s changed in 20 years aside from my hairline. Um, it may be, or my

Curtis Hays (18:29.249)
Or mine, I’m covering it up. But, well, so that’s interesting. And I actually had a conversation, um, last, last night actually in the manufacturing space, which we’re here in Detroit, heavy manufacturing automotive. Um, which has been a relationship based selling environment that.

Dave Tear (18:31.374)
my belt size.

Tom Nixon (18:34.46)
Belt size.

Curtis Hays (18:56.069)
We get deals through the connections and contacts we have. We belly up to the bar with those individuals, take them out to drinks, to lunches, and that’s how you would get deals. I think we’re moving towards an age where I don’t know if it’s a generation that doesn’t appreciate those relationships like our parents and grandparents did.

And you did business with your friends and those, or your friends referred you to somebody and it was more relationship based, but now I feel like it’s, um, can you solve my problem? I think it’s legal is pretty big now in us, right? So, you know, contracts, there’s a lot of review on contracts and the legal aspects of a lot of things that, uh, is challenging.

Honestly to sell at the end of the day. And so the organization itself has a process. The relationship isn’t good enough. You’ve got to be qualified or certified to even work with our organization, you know, in some cases, right? Um, so it’s, I think there’s that aspect of it that’s changed, but yeah, then I think technology has forced some changes where, um, you know, I, Dave, and I’ll relate this, I remember.

One of the trainings when you talked about, right. So people buy from people who they feel comfortable with. And you taught us that, um, I don’t remember what you called it, but it was basically like replicating the individual. So if, if you crossed your legs sitting across from me and I cross my legs. Then as well, that’s, that’s sort of a relationship based sign, right? Report.

Dave Tear (20:45.706)
Yeah, that’s called rapport. Giving somebody what they’re giving you. Mirroring and matching, right? You got it. And what happens when you cross your legs and somebody else crosses their legs eventually, there’s a subconscious trigger that says, hey, Curtis isn’t so bad. He’s like me. And I’m comfortable with that.

Curtis Hays (20:49.073)
Yeah, exactly.

Tom Nixon (20:49.944)
That’s me putting on this hat, right? Cause I’m mirroring right now. I’m gonna take it off.

Curtis Hays (20:53.617)
Mirroring, there you go. Yep, exactly.

Dave Tear (21:11.894)
That’s all that is. It’s no deeper than that. It’s a contrived bit of material and exercise to do in the training room. But on the street in person where it counts, it’s beautiful.

Curtis Hays (21:25.47)

Dave Tear (21:25.778)
I taught it yesterday. I taught it yesterday and they got the concept. I just hope today they’re actually doing it because in the laboratory I was teaching it and it was contrived. It was very contrived. All right, here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to do as they do in an effort to make them comfortable with you. Well, how is that? Well, people are comfortable with people like themselves.

So let them see themselves in you. It’s a very, very powerful move in sales. It’s called mirroring and matching based on the rapport part of bonding and rapport. Giving back to offer back.

Curtis Hays (21:59.229)
So is that evolving with technology where deals are done via email, phone calls, Zoom meetings like we’re having? So how are you teaching that now to build that rapport and that relationship when we’re not connected, you know, in person?

Dave Tear (22:07.529)

Dave Tear (22:15.542)
Yeah, it’s a great question. And I will tell you, right after the China virus started, we were all thrown into Teams and Zoom meetings, WebEx. And it was a necessity for me to build some material to how to do, how to sell virtually, right? Virtual selling.

Back then, and it’s even still happening today, it was discouraging to hear clients, salespeople, and sales leaders say, nobody’s working, we can’t get in touch with anybody. And I heard it from almost every client I had. And I listen and I doubt that that’s the case, right? People are working, okay? They’re not working the same way they used to.

They’re not in that cubicle that you used to be able to go to, walk the halls, and stop in their office. But they are working. They may be distracted by their kid, their pet, their husband, or the price is right, but they’re working. So to say they’re not working, and a lot of times, that works. They’re not working, so I don’t have to try. That’s easy. I can go home. But that’s no successful way to approach business.

So what we’ve had to do is cut through the clutter. If everybody is reaching out to the same people you’re reaching out to, and not just your competition, everybody, think of the emails and phone calls you get on a daily basis. And if I’m trying to cut through all that, why would you answer my call or reply to my email? If I’m like everybody else, there’s a good chance you wouldn’t.

Curtis Hays (23:54.729)

Dave Tear (24:04.522)
So what have I had to do? We’ve really boned up our telephone and email skills program, LinkedIn as well, LinkedIn coaching, LinkedIn as well. And when it comes to emails, write short emails. That’s really all I need to say. But it’s the subject line. When you’re at your workstation and you’re looking at your computer, unless you’re in a project on a website or hoping that,

Florida won last night and you’re checking your fantasy hockey. Unless you’re doing that, you’re in email. And what are you looking at? You’re looking at subject lines. Which one are you going to go to? You’re going to go to the one that compels you. So I spent a lot of time helping my clients not duplicate what their competition is probably duplicating. Quote follow-up. Brutal. Brutal subject line.

Curtis Hays (24:41.407)

Dave Tear (24:59.738)
Right introduction to abc company. I promise you nobody is dying to meet you That is not going to compel anybody to open so it’s different Yeah

Tom Nixon (24:59.952)
I’m going to go ahead and turn this off. I’m going to go ahead and turn

Curtis Hays (25:08.169)
Well, Tom, this is like your why messaging, right? Like why should I open that email, right? Lead with why. I mean, this relates exactly to what you teach on from a marketing perspective.

Dave Tear (25:13.452)

Tom Nixon (25:13.79)

Dave Tear (25:18.586)
My friend of mine last night was having trouble getting through to a big, big player. I said, still there. That’s the subject line. Still there. What? Why would I write that? Well, think about it. What are they going to do when they read that? Still there. What’s that? What do you mean? Of course I’m there. Right? Still there. It works. Another one. Still there and is it over?

Now some people hate that. If you’ve quoted an opportunity and they are not getting in touch with you after a number of follow ups, phone and email. There is nothing wrong asking the question in your subject line. Is it over? Haven’t heard from me in awhile. Assume you’ve gone in another direction, or maybe your priorities have changed. Let me know Bob so I can stop reaching out. Right at that moment I feel like I’m a stalker.

So I’m appealing to the fact that he thinks I’m a stalker and asking him to let me stop. It is very interesting what happens when you ask people to let you stop. They won’t let you stop.

Tom Nixon (26:26.048)
Yeah, my sales trainer like to send a note. So can I close the file? Like, wait, there’s a file? What’s going on here? So right. Yeah, can I close the file?

Dave Tear (26:34.318)
What’s a file? Same concept. It’s beautiful. Because unless that file has to be closed, they’re not going to let you close it. Sometimes it’s closed. That’s fine. Just get it on or get it off. Very interesting. That’s it.

Tom Nixon (26:44.048)
Great. You want to get to the know. Get to the know.

I wanted to ask you something else about sales today versus sales 20 years ago. Because obviously 20 years ago, the internet didn’t exist. So, a lot of times, companies would call salespeople because they don’t even know if the solution’s available, what solution is different than this solution, things that you can now research online and you can maybe get 67% of the way through the buying decision before you even reach out to a salesperson. So,

You said you’ve been doing this 30 years. So I hate to tell you, Dave, you got to answer the question.

Dave Tear (27:20.65)
Oh, no, I was there for it. I was there for it. It reminds me of actually reminds me of Frank Gifford. Remember Frank Gifford, Monday Night Football? Frank Gifford, yeah, Frank Gifford started a Monday night broadcast soon after the interweb was invented. And, and he appealed to everybody and watching everybody. And it made such sense. He said it used to be

Tom Nixon (27:31.116)
Oh yeah. I mean, no, I’m too young.

Dave Tear (27:49.61)
We would bring you the news. We’d let you know who got hurt over the weekend. We’d let you know what trades were developing. We’ll let you know this. We’d let you know that. Well, guess what? Life has changed because everybody already knows it.

We tune in and have actually had to change the way we broadcast football because we’re not giving the news anymore Unless you’re in a cave you already know the news And it’s I relate that to what’s happening in sales now because of this machine People know a lot of times more than we know about our product. They know what’s available They know what’s out there. They know who sells it. They’re there

They’re often tuned into how much it costs, when they can get it, supply chain issues. So it’s less of a, how do I say it? It’s less that you’re going to go in and educate somebody about your solutions. Quite frankly, one of our, and Curtis will remember this, one of our major, major fine, fine lines woven through this training is.

Don’t educate anybody on anything. Don’t give it away. Yeah, don’t give it away. Let’s dump.

Curtis Hays (29:02.661)
I remember Dave, I remember Dave, because you would tell us you would, what you’re doing is educating to the point that they buy from your competition. Yep.

Dave Tear (29:11.498)
You got it with your idea, right? Brutal strategy for selling. So if now, if it’s different now, people know more.

The need to educate really supports our system. It’s all about asking questions and finding their compelling reasons that they need it. It all, all always goes down to why am I here? What are you looking for? And ultimately what happens if you don’t find what you’re looking for? So it’s a qualifying process. Even if it’s a commodity, right? Even if it’s a commodity, these two pens are exactly alike for this example.

Why would I pay 18 for this one and when I can get this one for 16.5? Most people wouldn’t, most people wouldn’t. Until questions are asked that help you understand that you need something that doesn’t stain your shirt. Oh, it clicks off. Oh, and I can.

clip it to my shirt. Oh, that’s interesting. I’d pay 18 for that. Can’t get it with the other one. I thought they were exactly alike. Only when you peel that onion back, dig deeper with qualifying questions, do you learn where you may differentiate yourself. And that is so important in sales, especially today. Cause you’re right. People know about it. People know.

Tom Nixon (30:27.06)

I would suggest Curtis too. So now we’re kind of swinging back into some marketing opportunities. So it presents a challenge, you know, that you can’t educate a buyer anymore because they’re educating themselves, but therein lies an opportunity for, to do things. I think with content that educates the buyer on why you are the. Preferred choice, why you are the smarter problem solver. Why are you the more trusted? We talked about how people hire for people they like, know, and trust. If they never met you, how are they going to like, know, and trust you? And I would posit.

Curtis Hays (30:54.067)

Tom Nixon (30:59.146)
that your content can do all of that even before someone’s put themselves in market.

Curtis Hays (31:04.305)
That’s, and that’s why I want to bring Dave on today because all the things that you’ve talked about from a content perspective of creating that Y messaging so that a prospect comes in and reads that and they’re like this company or this person gets me and they can relate and now they feel comfortable and now that open is much easier because you know, you move right to, I guess you would call solutions based selling.

where you ask, you’re asking the right questions and, you know, uncovering the onion and, and then you get to the question of whether or not, are you the right company to solve our problem? Or do you have the right product to solve our problem or not much, much quicker? You know? So, um, I agree, they’re totally relatable. Um, and, and.

Tom Nixon (31:54.388)
And Dave, I’ve, I’ve woven in what I learned in Sandler about, you mentioned pain, right? Is nobody wants to hire a marketing firm to talk about pain, right? Because they’re like, Ooh, it’s icky. But I feel like you need to an express, you need to express it. Understanding of the prospects pain. And that’s what we do with content. Like it’s not gory and it’s not like salacious, but it’s like, we know that this hurts.

And this is why we started this company or created this product. And here’s how it’s different than the other pen that won’t click closed and staining your shirt. Right. So I’m sort of applying that in leading with heat. When Curtis says lead with why it’s another way of saying, uncover the pain out in the open with your content.

Dave Tear (32:34.734)
That’s it. That’s it. When the next time you see a Tums or a Rolates commercial, I promise there will be fire coming out of the throat, heartburn, there will be a lava reflux coming out, there will be some form of, oh my God, this is killing me. Why don’t they just sell the ergonomic cap and the new boysenberry flavor? Tums never ever talks about that stuff. They hit me where it counts.

Curtis Hays (32:43.957)
Thanks for watching!

Dave Tear (33:04.05)
And if I have reflux or heartburn, I’m qualified. If I don’t, I’m eating candy because Tums ain’t candy. Last time I checked. So marketers have been doing it for a while. And it’s appropriate. I let my people tell. Every time I bring this example up, what is the heartburn and reflux in your business? Because you have the solution. But stop giving them Tums.

Tom Nixon (33:08.469)

Dave Tear (33:31.014)
Stop giving that stuff away ask if they need it and then you can sell them You have heartburn reflux i could sell you a Tums for five bucks You don’t you’re not eating you’re not taking one for free That’s that’s pay

Tom Nixon (33:41.336)
Yeah, Tums doesn’t give you a free sample and say, if you like this, buy it from us, right? It’s like if you need it, buy it.

Dave Tear (33:46.49)
Oh, no, because not enough people would need to like it, right? That’s exactly right. So interesting.

Tom Nixon (33:51.748)
Right. Yeah.

Curtis Hays (33:52.853)
I love bringing these storytellers on Tom and, and you getting excited. Uh, you know, Dave’s just always been a great, great storyteller as I know you are as well. And today we’re selling Tums on the podcast, you know.

Tom Nixon (34:02.008)
But I love the brand, Dave. I love… But you tell a story with your brand.

Dave Tear (34:06.371)
It was it was my mother’s favorite blog. I’ll send it to you when I’m done. She said Dave Davie That was my favorite block and I like of all the blogs that one why I think it related right it told a story that Everybody can relate to if they’ve ever had reflex

Tom Nixon (34:22.224)
Yeah. That was just commending you too, of what for the storytelling you do in your brand, you would just get everything around sports and people who relate to sports and know the difference between winning and losing can relate and you weave it into everything you do from the playbook to your, your title as head coach, which I like. So, and then you mentioned the internet. It also killed, um, sports center. I mean, I know sports center still exists, but like.

We used to remember 11 o’clock. I am watching sports center. I got to find out what happened today. Now we don’t need that anymore. So, yeah. Well, Dave, thanks a lot. This is great. We’re going to have you back because 30 minutes is not enough time to pick your brain on this. And like I said, Curtis and I are still novices. We will remain novices the next time you see us. So let’s pick up where we left off this time. How does that sound?

Dave Tear (34:50.57)
You got it. It’s so interesting, yeah. It’s done a lot.


Dave Tear (35:05.694)
Love it, love it, I appreciate it. Thank you both for having me. If it didn’t come out, I love this more than anything in the world. I just love it. And I hope it shows, because it’s all I know how to do. Ha ha ha.

Tom Nixon (35:19.232)
It does. Well, I think of my dad said, and I’m a firm believer that if you can sell successfully, you’ll always have a job somewhere. So for those who are aspiring, just get good at it and you’ll never be unemployed.

Dave Tear (35:30.466)
There you go. Appreciate it guys a lot. Thank you.

Curtis Hays (35:32.509)
Well, I hope I did you proud today, Dave, and all that I’ve remembered and everything you taught me so long ago. I appreciate that so much. And, uh, I always, we had the best meetings, always enjoyed it when you were coming to our office and teaching and, uh, you know, the stories and the sports analogies and all those things, uh, made it relatable. Helped me to understand the coaching. So I just say to our audience.

Tom Nixon (35:32.72)
All right.

Dave Tear (35:36.954)
Oh. You complete me, Curtis. You complete me. That was so good.

Curtis Hays (36:01.117)
If you, if you need a coach, Dave is a great option. Call him, reach out to him. You can find him on salecoachescorner.com or look up Dave tier on LinkedIn. Uh, I know he’s on Instagram as well. Puts out lots of tips. Got a great blog. I know you’ve got lots of videos on your website too. Dave’s been training for a number of years and larger settings, small groups. So

Yeah, that’s my pitch for Dave. And again, thank you for all you’ve taught me over the years. Thanks for joining the podcast. Really appreciate it.

Dave Tear (36:32.994)
Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Tom Nixon (36:34.82)
we’ll put all of that in the show notes and then we’ll leave the two of you to continue reminiscing while we thank everyone else for joining us and we’ll see you next time on bull horns and bulls eyes.

Dave Tear (36:43.927)
Thank you.


Listen anywhere:

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Additional episodes:

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Episode 25: Sales Contracts (and more)

Tom and Curtis are joined by Tricia Meyer, founder and managing attorney at Meyer Law, which provides insights on the different types of contracts and their significance in protecting both parties.

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Episode 23: The Power of Integrated Marketing

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Episode 5: Aligning Sales and Marketing

Fractional CMO, author and frequent podcast interviewee Aimee Schuster joins our pod to break down her view of what ails many sales and marketing departments in organizations today.

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