Let’s Build a Brand on the Fly!

Curtis Hays (00:00.409)
Let me check if things are up there, while I’m checking to see if we’re actually streaming.

Curtis Hays (00:11.949)
Give me something, Tom, what’s something nobody knows about you?

Tom Nixon (00:18.018)
Why would I want to tell you something that nobody knows about?

Curtis Hays (00:20.793)
That was just something like unique tidbit that like nobody would know. I don’t mean like a dark secret or something, but just give me…

Tom Nixon (00:26.208)
Okay. Here’s a tidbit that, you know, that other people don’t know who don’t know me that I married my high school sweetheart 20 years after our first date. And that was two marriages prior for both of us in between. First date was top gun. And we recently relived that with Maverick around our 20th anniversary. How about that?

Josh Donnelly (00:55.477)
That’s pretty awesome.

Tom Nixon (00:57.002)
Yeah. So she, we both got married. We both got divorced within like a month or so of each other, ran into each other, got reacquainted in about seven months later. were engaged. Crazy,

Josh Donnelly (01:13.717)
That is crazy.

Tom Nixon (01:18.05)
Are we live streaming?

Josh Donnelly (01:18.196)
My wife and I are like, we’re like junior high sweethearts. we, similar, similar story. We’ve known each other for a long time.

Curtis Hays (01:18.393)
Think free.

Tom Nixon (01:27.64)
But did you guys have messy breakups in between?

Josh Donnelly (01:31.287)
not messy, but we had one because we were like, I think we were in like seventh grade and we just like, you know, you know how that goes.

Tom Nixon (01:33.571)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (01:40.017)
yeah. Yep.

Curtis Hays (01:43.245)
We are live on YouTube.

Josh Donnelly (01:45.524)
Sweet.

Tom Nixon (01:46.058)
Excellent.

Curtis Hays (01:47.415)
I don’t know on LinkedIn. I’m just checking LinkedIn again, dashboard activity.

Curtis Hays (01:59.96)
I remember where it’s at. Feed.

Tom Nixon (02:01.686)
What account are you going live under yourself or?

Curtis Hays (02:04.557)
No, should be bull horns and bulls eyes.

Curtis Hays (02:09.699)
So what I’m gonna do just in case, I’ll put a link to the live stream. So we’ll do share, copy, we’ll get people over to YouTube here with the live stream just in case it doesn’t pop up here.

Josh Donnelly (02:17.824)
Are we all doing?

Josh Donnelly (02:25.909)
Sweet. Are we all doing a random fact?

Curtis Hays (02:27.065)
Yeah, go ahead, Josh, do yours.

Tom Nixon (02:29.549)
Yeah.

Josh Donnelly (02:32.851)
was weird. Apparently I opened up Siri by what I said. was odd. Yeah, so get this. I at one point held the world record for the fastest rendition of the alphabet backwards with my eyes closed on, at the time I think it was called internationalrecorddatabase.com, but now it’s recordsetter.com. It was one…

Tom Nixon (02:56.748)
Wow.

Josh Donnelly (02:57.614)
One point I think it was 1.9 maybe 1.7 seconds something like that then I got dethroned after like a year because people said that I you had to submit a video And they were like, don’t know. He said it so fast. He slurred his letters I’m like, well, that’s what happens when you say the alphabet in 1.9 seconds, but That’s my

Tom Nixon (03:13.812)
Have you ever heard Peter Griffin do the alphabet in less than half a second?

Josh Donnelly (03:18.452)
No, now I want to are you gonna reenact it?

Tom Nixon (03:21.1)
It’s not sounds like this. Yes. Ready?

Josh Donnelly (03:24.596)
That’s basically what mine sounded like so yeah Yep That’s my claim to fame. It’s the one world record that I held for a short period. yeah

Tom Nixon (03:29.24)
I bet.

Tom Nixon (03:35.32)
That’s pretty cool though. That’s really cool. I’m trying to see if we’ve gone live yet on LinkedIn.

Curtis Hays (03:43.609)
Yeah, I don’t see it. I’ve posted some stuff over to push people to YouTube, but I don’t know why the LinkedIn’s not going.

Tom Nixon (03:53.847)
that.

Curtis Hays (03:56.28)
All good. will be a recording we’ll post afterwards anyway. My quick one is I was actually in school to be a pilot. Did either of you know that? Yeah. So I flew airplanes for a little while. You knew that Tom, I told you that one.

Josh Donnelly (04:08.542)
Seriously? No.

Tom Nixon (04:11.246)
think you told me that.

Josh Donnelly (04:15.486)
That’s awesome.

Tom Nixon (04:17.555)
I I knew that when we were talking to your, that your aviation client may have come up.

Curtis Hays (04:22.201)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Mike, no, no, I haven’t I haven’t flown in years. But it was a great way to pick up chicks. So I go to the bar with with friends of mine, and they were all bigger than me, you know, worked out the gym a lot more than me. And they’d be talking to girls at the bar, and then introduce me and then the girls would be like, Oh, what are you in school for? What are you studying? Like, Oh, I’m a pilot.

Josh Donnelly (04:25.47)
You still fly at all? No?

Curtis Hays (04:49.273)
And it was like, like you said, Tom, your first date was Top Gun. I think that was the first thing that popped into their head was like, you know, the guys doing the high fives at the, uh, you know, while they’re playing sand volleyball and, uh, right. Yup. Yup. So it was a great way. Actually, my roommate once, he worked at a restaurant and he brought home, I shouldn’t say brought her home. He, set up a date with one of the waitresses that he worked with.

Tom Nixon (04:59.256)
Mm-hmm.

Josh Donnelly (05:02.035)
and then you put on your aviators and like walked out. Yeah.

Curtis Hays (05:18.925)
And they came over and I was doing a flight plan on the table. So I had a big map out and I was building my flight plan for the next day. She’s like, what are you doing? This is like, she’s waiting for him to get ready or something. I’m a pilot. I’ve got to fly tomorrow. So I’m mapping everything out. She’s like, really? So they go on this date and he comes back alone and says, she wants to go out with you. So then.

Her and I went out on a couple of dates afterwards. She didn’t work out with either of us, but it was pretty funny and he was cool with it.

Tom Nixon (05:51.726)
Nice. Nice. Fun facts.

Josh Donnelly (05:53.619)
You’re a pilot.

Curtis Hays (05:53.828)
So I was a pilot. Well, I was, yeah. It’s not like once a Marine, always a Marine. I don’t think I could always say I’m a pilot, but I did fly for a little bit.

Josh Donnelly (06:04.5)
Do you still like do flight simulators or anything? Just to get that fix? Yeah?

Tom Nixon (06:05.398)
If you start to…

Curtis Hays (06:08.611)
I have done that and I have also thought if anyone needed me, you know, like when I’m on a flight from somewhere to somewhere and something happens to the actual pilot, you know, on a commercial flight, you know, would I be able to jump in there and take over? Kind of like the movie Airplane. Yep. So.

Josh Donnelly (06:18.494)
emergency.

Josh Donnelly (06:27.889)
Yeah, yeah, that’d be awesome.

Tom Nixon (06:32.833)
You should change your name to Curtis Striker. No, striker, striker, striker, striker. Yeah, we shouldn’t talk too much about Top Gun because we’re waiting dangerously close to Yacht Rock. You got Kenny Loggins in the conversation, so. I did it before we officially launched the episode. I thought that would be.

Curtis Hays (06:35.267)
There you go, striker, striker.

Josh Donnelly (06:35.695)
Striker.

Curtis Hays (06:42.233)
Great tune.

Curtis Hays (06:51.287)
Yeah, there. boy. There it is. The plug’s in.

Curtis Hays (06:58.489)
All right, well, let’s dive in because we don’t have too much time here. We’ve got about 40 minutes and I know we’ve got a fun little twist of a show, I suppose, today. So kick us off, Tom.

Tom Nixon (07:13.558)
Well, to quote the great Brett Musburger, you are looking live. Ladies and gentlemen, we are operating without a net. We’ve gone live. So to those of you who have joined us live on YouTube or LinkedIn, welcome. I guess Curtis, you wanted to do this one live to add even more of a risk factor to Josh and I making fools of ourselves because we have no idea what we’re about to get ourselves into it. Only you do.

Curtis Hays (07:39.994)
Only I do. Yeah, I’m putting you both in the hot seat today. We’re going to see how this plays out. both, both your, your heads there will be sweating by the end. We might, might get, start to get a little shiny. Yeah. But I’m excited to welcome back and Josh Donnelly. And that was a big reason why I wanted to do this today because if you’re watching or listening now and you didn’t get to check out Josh’s episode in season one.

Tom Nixon (07:49.569)
You

Josh Donnelly (07:50.354)
Yeah, I got a glare already, so it’s…

Curtis Hays (08:09.977)
which was when I was first getting to know Josh, we had him on and really surprised me with this concept, which was very close to the concepts and frameworks that you work from Tom, which is funnel driven storytelling. Tom, why don’t you have a name for your framework? Josh has got this really cool name, funnel driven storytelling. And I’m like, yeah, Tom has this framework. It’s why how what? It’s like, where’s our like, you know,

Tom Nixon (08:34.606)
That’s it.

That’s the name. It is what it says on the tin. Why how what? Yeah, because people are going. They’re going to resist it. They’re going to forget to do it. So it’s like I’m just naming it what it is. So people remember to lead with why.

Curtis Hays (08:38.849)
That’s the name? Why how what?

Josh Donnelly (08:41.72)
WHW.

Curtis Hays (08:49.301)
Maybe I’m not what it is. Well, Josh, that was a fun episode and we went off in a couple different directions and by the end of it, I think the two of you, which I thought was fun for me, was watching your creative brains sell paper plates on that episode. It’s like, this is not how you sell paper plates. This is how you sell paper plates. And it really was spot on and since then…

Josh Donnelly (08:49.906)
That’s fair.

Josh Donnelly (08:54.482)
It was fun.

Curtis Hays (09:16.941)
Gosh, that goes back almost 18 months ago. really since then, it did hit home for me in when I have conversations with clients and I look at their homepages or anything they’re doing from a messaging perspective. What are they saying? Where is it at in the journey? All those types of things. Anyway, Josh, welcome back on the show. Thanks for taking the invite. What’s new in your world? Anything new?

Josh Donnelly (09:38.129)
Thank you guys.

Josh Donnelly (09:44.018)
Oh man, what’s new in my world? My world’s been busy, but that’s good thing.

Curtis Hays (09:46.457)
Tell everybody what it is you do real quick.

Josh Donnelly (09:52.026)
Yeah, so I own a web design and marketing agency. We focus on brand storytelling. So we do the actual web design and the build out of the websites, but we do it from sort of a marketing perspective. So it’s not strictly just like, okay, tell us what to build and we’ll build it. It’s actually putting together sort of the guide rails of what is a proper story for this brand look like. And then usually that evolves.

into sort of other brand peripherals as well. So we build the site and then do we need to do a video for the about page and do we need to do, you know, creative for the ads that lead to the website and so on and so forth. So it’s sort of this bigger picture process, right, where we sort of coalesce a brand and what they’re trying to accomplish, but it’s all rooted in or at least starts from the website and then spokes out from there. So that’s what we do. That’s what I do.

Curtis Hays (10:46.211)
We might talk a little bit about AI yet. Are you concerned at all that AI is going to be replacing you soon?

Josh Donnelly (10:52.527)
I don’t know if concern’s the right word. I think right now it’s a great tool set that, you know, I don’t deny there are some incredible strengths. And so I’m not a, hey, it’s never coming for my job. It’s how does this adapt into, I think what all of us do, right? Like how do we utilize this as a tool in the toolbox, moving forward versus just being scared of it or saying that it’s not coming for our jobs. Cause I do think if we do that, we’re to be sorely surprised. So.

Curtis Hays (11:18.745)
Yeah. All right. What do think?

Tom Nixon (11:20.172)
Remind people, Josh, if you don’t mind real quickly, what is funny? I’m sorry. funnel driven storytelling.

Josh Donnelly (11:25.329)
It’s funny driven storytelling too. can be. No, funnel driven storytelling is this concept. It’s basically, it’s less of a structure or a template and more of a, just a process, sort of like set the mind straight on like, and this is probably what we’re gonna look at today as we dive into things, but it’s how do we sort of, if somebody says build me a website and we know a little bit about the brand, how do you know what to put where? Why are there?

Tom Nixon (11:30.531)
Yeah.

Josh Donnelly (11:53.169)
15 sections on the homepage. What do each of those 15 sections say? And so funnel driven storytelling sort of creates this, you know, again, the guard rails of a brand storytelling process that we can use specifically on the homepage and then sort of throughout the site. So what does that mean? Well, a marketing funnel can be broken down into sort of four simple stages, which is awareness, consideration, preference, and then conversion, purchase, lead, whatever that conversion might be, right?

And so if we take that same approach to building and designing and creating storytelling on a homepage, you have awareness. It’s positioning. It’s a hero statement that focuses on sort of the benefit versus just like, know, Hey, we sell paper plates. No, tell me why we need the paper plates. So you start with awareness, what we do, get into consideration, what we offer and what the benefits of that are preference. That’s sort of your storytelling. That’s the meat and potatoes of what we’re doing. And then conversion is a final call to action.

So if we follow that design can take all sort of shapes and forms and storytelling can look many different ways. But if it follows that you’re sort of flowing into a proper storytelling or at least a very natural feeling storytelling process. It’s the same way that you would have a conversation with, you know, a buddy about a brand. We don’t realize that’s how we do it, but we tell people what it is, what it does, why it matters to us and how they can, you know, get in on it too. Right. And it’s the same thing building and designing.

a webpage. yeah, that’s funnel driven storytelling.

Tom Nixon (13:23.822)
Perfect.

And that aligns with my, I apparently poorly named, structure of why, how, what, because what I find is the inclination many brands have is to start spewing out the products or the features, and they’re not talking to benefit. just said at the top end that, an awareness, usually the motivator is some sort of why it’s a pain or an aspiration. and they haven’t yet identified that they need your what yet. So

What we’re trying to do with why, how, what is similar, like guide that user through the funnel that will ultimately lead to what you want, which is the, conversion or the sale or whatever it is. But you’ve, can’t, as you always say, Curtis, you can’t ask for that as the first step, right? That’s like the last step in the problem when people just jump right into sort of lead Jen, if they don’t have their story straight, is that it’s just saying it’s asking for the first date before you’ve even met the girl.

since we all shared our first date prior to jumping on here.

Curtis Hays (14:24.633)
We did. So if you didn’t catch that, I’m sorry, it won’t be in the final recording. So you had to be live for that.

Tom Nixon (14:33.539)
Yeah.

Curtis Hays (14:40.803)
So for you both, I have a brand to present. I woke up one morning and there was an idea there in my head about a software application that solves a problem near and dear to my heart. And I thought, hey, what if I brought Josh back on with Tom and we tried to build storytelling.

But let me flush out what this brand looks like myself first and how I would approach it and then see how you guys would change it. Just like a customer when they come to us and say, hey, we’re really struggling to get leads. We need you to do some advertising. Can we do some Google ads? Can we do some LinkedIn ads? Can we generate some leads? And then we look at their website and we say, I’m not sure you’re ready to bring people to your website yet. We might want to make sure we’re actually

connecting with them appropriately first, which is this storytelling and messaging that we talked about. So I’ll unveil the homepage for you. let’s, we’re going to, for the sake of this little workshop we’re gonna do here.

Josh Donnelly (15:50.338)
I’m excited.

Tom Nixon (15:56.675)
Yeah, I should note, just quick caveat that my framework works mostly on paper plates. So I don’t know if it’ll work here, but let’s give it a shot.

Curtis Hays (16:05.229)
Let’s give it a shot.

Josh Donnelly (16:06.734)
That’s why we’re sweating. That’s… hey.

Curtis Hays (16:09.443)
So, yep, yep. So this is Lead Mosaic, your all-in-one lead journey intelligence platform where you can track leads, score intent, visualize funnels, and boost conversions. As we scroll down the page, everything you need to understand your leads, it’s got a lead funnel visualizer, it scores, it’s got some AI attribution, analytics.

It integrates with your CRM and then maps out customer journeys for you. We’ve got some outstanding reviews. We understand where our leads are at in the funnel, prioritize high intent prospects, improve ROI.

Tom Nixon (16:47.694)
Wow, look at you.

Curtis Hays (16:55.961)
Let’s try it free for 14 days. It’s a nice little dashboard. We’re a community driven by the pursuit of smarter marketing. Empower marketers with tools that simplify their workflows and make an impact. Redefine how business connect with their customers. Integrate effortly with your CRM.

Josh Donnelly (17:16.269)
This is a well thought out.

Yeah.

Curtis Hays (17:20.621)
Yeah, yeah, it’s well thought out.

and then a little join our community. We’ve got some get starteds. Now we just have a homepage here. We can’t go any deeper. I don’t have a features page and about page, but I’ve got some of this company history here in my head. You guys are welcome to ask me some questions, but let’s get some first impressions. Let’s say you guys came across this website and some sort of discovery. What are your first thoughts?

Tom Nixon (17:54.723)
that I don’t want to call your baby ugly. well, I’ll just go first. I think you’ve fallen into the tar pit. You’ve led with what this is and I have no idea why I should care. Right. So I don’t even think this is for me. So I would not even spend any time in this website because I don’t need an all in one lead journey intelligence platform. I sounds good. Sounds expensive. Sounds like

Curtis Hays (17:58.093)
It’s not ugly.

Tom Nixon (18:22.358)
Something for the data nerds, but I just don’t get it. So there, sorry. That’s what I think of your baby, Josh.

Josh Donnelly (18:26.433)
Yeah, no, this, yeah, this is a great example of you are addressing the top of the funnel, which is awareness, right? Okay, what is it? It’s an all-in-one lead journey intelligence platform, but does that resonate with the user, right? If somebody was talking to a friend about this, you know, at dinner, how are they explaining it? It’s probably not that way. They’re probably saying, you know, depending on how this works and we can get into some of that, like logistically, we can have a conversation around it.

but they might be saying something like, you’ll never guess how we increased revenue last month, right? So, okay, do we lead with, you know, increase ROI? Like what is that, you know, instead of selling the feature or just leading with this what, can we sell the benefit, the outcome? What is it that somebody actually gets from that? And that should be, again, from the hero section, that awareness stage is just high level. It’s like, what does it matter? But like, you know.

This is a big brand, but you look at like Coca-Cola and they’re not like, it’s a refreshing can of high fructose corn syrup and whatever. Like, no, they lead with like, you know, hot day, you know, great refresher, right? It’s like, you want that thing because of how it makes you feel or what the outcome is. And so can we focus on that in the hero section? So what I do like is track leads, score intent, visualize funnels and boost conversions. But that, that headline, can it lead, can it

Piggyback off of that, but talk more to what the outcomes are, the why I need this. You know what I mean? And then that’s what we’re doing there at the top of the funnel is gonna play into everything else, right?

Curtis Hays (19:56.376)
Yeah, Josh.

Curtis Hays (20:01.657)
And I think you had some examples of companies that do this well. Do you not?

Josh Donnelly (20:06.645)
I do, yeah. You want me to share my screen here? I can absolutely do that. So.

Curtis Hays (20:09.081)
Yeah. Why don’t you share those?

Curtis Hays (20:21.205)
And no pressure, no one’s watching. We maybe have one person.

Josh Donnelly (20:24.288)
Hey, that’s still pressure. There’s still like a live recording icon here. So that’s pressure. So let’s jump first to like literally the tool that we’re using to do this podcast right now. So, you I was on their site to get ready for this podcast and I’m looking through this and I’m like, man, this is actually great storytelling. They could very easily say, you know, video podcasting platform or some sort of just very literal what it is, right? But instead they lead with a headline here that is

Curtis Hays (20:26.956)
No worries.

Yeah

Josh Donnelly (20:52.873)
both aspirational and a clear benefit. Create your best content yet. Well, that’s what I’m looking to do, whether it’s a podcast or just like live interviews or whatever it is that we’re trying to do. Ultimately, people who are doing this are trying to create the best content. So that speaks to the user. Then they get into some of, again, high level, this is awareness, but they do get into some of that high level what, right? It’s not detailed what, it’s not getting into, it’s not overdoing the what before you get into the why, but it is the,

how am I going to create my best content yet? Well, with this all-in-one studio to record high quality, edit in a flash, go live at the bang, et cetera. So I’ve got the what it’s gonna do for me, but more so the big picture of why I’m here, which is to create my best content yet. And then we can talk more about what’s below the fold here, but they do get into those benefits that they outlined. Record it, edit it, go live, et cetera. Yeah, go ahead, Tom.

Tom Nixon (21:46.031)
Could I just opine on this as well? So a couple things that they do well here is in addition to everything you said is they’ve mapped the message to the intended user. Anyone who’s going to buy Riverside subscription considers themselves a content creator. It’s a fancy way of saying I make podcasts or videos or whatever. So the words are speaking in the user’s language. Create your best content yet. The other thing is I would suggest that the payoff is

Curtis Hays (21:46.711)
Tom, what do you think of that hero?

Tom Nixon (22:15.358)
less of what although there’s some what language in there for sure, but it’s a how it’s one. It’s all in one two. It’s high quality, which we know zoom is not typically right and go live with a bang, right? So it’s this is the how all of the trial is that say all that works with you all with AI. Sorry that works with you. So there’s another how and then as you scroll down to your point, Josh, then it’s the well, what can I do with this thing?

record, right? So scroll down if you don’t mind. Yep, record it. Boom. So then this is, this is still how they’re segueing from how to what. So.

Josh Donnelly (22:53.215)
Yeah. Yep. No, and they, and they do a great job. And this, this is kind of what I was hitting at earlier where, you you’ll notice that the sites that I have pulled up here that we’ll look at, the other ones in a moment, they don’t fall. They don’t all look the same. This isn’t like a rigid template, but it’s how do you unpack this storytelling? And then you, you apply the visuals to it, you know, as you go. Riverside does a great job. They basically have these big individual sections for each of their individual, you know,

Tom Nixon (22:55.53)
everything you can do in the platform.

Josh Donnelly (23:20.542)
both features and benefits, which is the editing, the go live, right? The recording, all of those things. And they have these giant sections. Those are the storytelling pieces, but they all, to your point, piggyback off of what they introduced in that awareness section. Now, something that you’ll notice, and I would actually, as we start getting back into Lead Mosaic, like…

How do we craft this story? I would bring your social proof up. Maybe not the not the testimonials necessarily, but are there things that we could bring up, you know, five star reviews, things like that, that could help tell the story. What Riverside and a lot of these others do right off the bat is they lead with some sort of initial social proof to tell you that you’re in good company, right? Before they even get into the rest of the storytelling. So let’s go ahead. We’ll jump over to guideline here, which is

sort of a modern 401k investment platform. They’re a little more literal. Go ahead. Yeah.

Curtis Hays (24:15.277)
Josh, before you go there, let me add, and then maybe we just do two of these because we’ll want to go back to, so do your next like best one because we’ll go back to Lead Mosaic and actually I’ll let you guys explore some ideas. But would you say Tom and Josh that on Riverside, that statement puts their customer as the hero? Because you’re creating your best content yet, right?

Josh Donnelly (24:25.224)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (24:40.457)
Absolutely.

Josh Donnelly (24:41.449)
100%.

Curtis Hays (24:43.831)
They’re not the best software for X, Y, and Z. You’re going to get to create your best content.

Tom Nixon (24:48.94)
No, it’s not the, could have very well been the best podcasting production software on the planet. Right? Okay. Good. Right. But they didn’t know they are the hero. Right. Going back to our star Wars analogy, right? Luke Skywalker is the person getting ready to sign up for some podcasting software. They’ve just positioned themselves as Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon to get you there.

Curtis Hays (24:58.861)
They could make that claim. They could make that claim, yep, but they don’t.

Josh Donnelly (25:17.757)
I like that. Yeah. Yeah.

So Curtis, yeah, so I think guideline, theirs is a little looser, right? They’re very literal here in their hero and their awareness, their introduction, the way your 401k should be. But they’re playing too, again, they’re talking to, whether it’s small business owners or whatever, they are talking to individuals that are, their whole thing is that they’re an alternative modern version of a 401k with a phenomenal software platform to manage it.

Tom Nixon (25:22.697)
Give us one more, Josh.

Josh Donnelly (25:49.95)
And so they’re basically playing to that again with the customer as the hero saying we can solve your 401k problems. Now, you know, again, they’re very, they’re much more literal in what they’re doing. Get smart automation direct, whoa, hello. Get smart automation, direct payroll sync and award winning support for teams of all sizes. But again, they’re speaking to those, those pain points, right? With smart automation and support for small business owners. And as you scroll down, you actually see them.

Featuring each of their benefits sort of in this tabbed format here. What are the benefits? Well, it’s seamless payroll. It’s stress-free compliance It’s automated admin and then it’s these guided investments and then they have more below the fold to help reinforce that storytelling They have social proof with things like this right here where they have the actual testimonials listed out But they do a really good job of trying to consolidate sort of a complex like old-school banking industry You don’t you don’t expect it to be this clean modern storytelling

They try to consolidate that down into what I would consider funnel driven storytelling as well, starting with that awareness, going into our consideration, why do we need it? And then ultimately culminating at the end here with a call to action, your new 401k right this way, right? Very much speaking to the user and leading them down a path of conversion, right?

Tom Nixon (27:10.732)
Yep. So, I think I agree with everything you said. It’s a good segue back to lead mosaic because there’s a question in my mind that always comes up before why and it’s a question that people I think also forget to define clearly and that’s who. So, for me to evaluate whether this is an effective depends on are they talking to the plant administrator? Are they talking to a small business owner? Are they talking to somebody in HR?

Curtis Hays (27:10.841)
What are your thoughts, Tom?

Josh Donnelly (27:29.832)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Nixon (27:40.492)
Because those are all three different types of what we’d call archetypes, right? Character personas, whatever you want to use. So we have to map to that. So if you want to go back to lead mosaic, my first question for you is going to be Curtis, who is this for?

Curtis Hays (27:55.96)
Yeah, Josh, leave your whiteboard open because maybe we’ll whiteboard a little bit there.

So for me at least and how I started it as an agency, I’m constantly trying to stitch together tools and data, CRMs, ad platforms, spreadsheets, to just get an understanding of where our leads came from and what led to a conversion, what didn’t, all those types of things. It was a lack of clarity in that data. So who this is for, I would say would be any performance marketer that exists either in an agency or

working within a company whose responsibility it is to generate leads, right, from a marketing perspective, and they’re trying to get a handle on those things.

Tom Nixon (28:45.016)
Gotcha.

Josh Donnelly (28:46.76)
And then, so I guess ultimately Piggy.

Tom Nixon (28:47.95)
Is this a senior person? ahead, Josh.

Josh Donnelly (28:52.86)
That’s kind what I’m getting at is like, so piggybacking off of that, not only who is it, like ultimately, so it’s an all in one lead journey intelligence platform, but what does that mean? Like, what is that actually doing for this person? And then I guess in addition to that, as Tom was just asking, like more specifically, how do we talk to that person about what this is, right? And what it does.

Curtis Hays (29:15.063)
Right. So you guys are going to treat me as the customer. You guys are going to treat me as the customer now. And you feel free to ask me questions. Yep.

Tom Nixon (29:16.194)
was going to add real quick Kurtz. What’s that?

Yeah. Okay. So let me just ask a clarifying question. Is the person that you’re selling this to the user?

Curtis Hays (29:32.952)
Yes.

Tom Nixon (29:33.912)
Okay. And is that a person leading a team or is that person that is in the analytics every day and needs to report them out?

Curtis Hays (29:43.674)
I would say it’s the, it’s the lead of that team. So could be an agency owner. They see this as an issue. They’re, they’re not retaining clients or they’re not able to show proof to activities they’re doing. So it’s going to be an agency owner or. Yeah. I think in an organization, it could be a marketing director, biz dev.

is somebody on the marketing side whose responsibility it is to generate leads. It’s not going to be…

the copywriter, the person doing the social media and those types of things is going to be more of a manager above.

Josh Donnelly (30:27.665)
So why does that individual like, why do they need this? Right? It looks cool. It sounds cool. But why do they actually need this? Is it streamlining their workflow? Is it organization? Is it actually helping them increase ROI? Is it all of the above and how, right?

Curtis Hays (30:45.879)
Yeah, so it would ultimately help them improve ROI if they could make better decisions. so ultimately, the problem is leads come through all these different channels. They all end up inside of the CRM. Sales picks up that lead and does something with it. And you’ve got all these different tools that have their different attribution models and different things, but it all ends up being fragmented. For me to build a report and actually tell the customer story,

I’ve got to look at Google Analytics data. I’ve got to look at Facebook data. I’ve got to look at LinkedIn data. I’ve got to look at the CRM. And I have to try to piece. So this is sort of where the mosaic comes in. I have to create a puzzle. It’s a puzzle to the marketer. now I have to, once I put those pieces together, hopefully tell a story to whether it’s

my customer or whether it’s leadership, what’s actually happening with their money. And so what Lead Mosaic does is it paints that picture for you. It automates that process. It saves you time and building those reports, going after and getting all that data that we connect with all those systems to bring that data together into a central place that says, hey, I spent $20,000 in Google advertising. This is how many customers and how much revenue I got out of it. Or this is

how much revenue is in the pipeline inside of Salesforce.

Tom Nixon (32:22.67)
Quick question. So you said this came to you in a dream, right? So weird dreams, by the way, but I’m guessing that because I, yeah, for what little I know about dreams, I took psych 101, but they are a reflection typically or a valve for the conscious mind to release anxiety, right? So what do you think?

Curtis Hays (32:31.385)
You

Josh Donnelly (32:31.398)
Some marketers dreams

Tom Nixon (32:49.484)
If you could recall that week, what do you think was going on that week at work that you’re like, I got to figure out way out of this mess. And then your mind just dreamt it up.

Curtis Hays (32:59.545)
Yeah, I think it’s similar to what I was just talking about where a client is spending money, say it’s $7,000 a month in advertising, and you’re getting on a phone call with them and they say, hey, it doesn’t seem like things are working. Man, this time last year, I had twice as many leads as I had this year.

In the big picture, what you don’t see is the fact that you have half as many this year than you did last year may not have anything to do with the advertising. It could be market related. Maybe the market’s down right now. It could be a completely different channel that’s the problem. So as marketers, we have to go figure out how to solve these problems when it comes to data and meeting…

the needs, expectations, KPIs that either leadership or a customer puts on us. And we want better answers. We don’t want to be guessing. And unfortunately, to figure out that story, we have to go to all these different platforms, bring data together, and then try to come up with a potential hypothesis or analysis of what’s truly happening.

without all the insight ready for us in one central place with the help of some AI that can look a bit deeper, maybe do some market research and those types of things to help us understand what might actually be happening right now.

Tom Nixon (34:36.034)
One quick follow up to that, that I’ll turn it over to you, Josh. So describe the feeling of going into that meeting and the client asks you that, and you don’t have enough tabs open because he asked for the one thing that you forgot to pull up and that’s on a dashboard. And now I got to open it to describe that feeling of why, again, this would cause you enough anxiety to dream about it.

Curtis Hays (34:54.765)
Yeah, it is anxiety. It’s a little pit, you know, in your stomach and you feel inadequate, I would say. You know, it’s like they’re coming to you for these answers and you don’t have that answer for them. And you want the answer. The worst… Well, in your head, you feel like the worst thing you could say to them is, don’t know. But actually, sometimes that’s the best thing to say. I don’t know. We’ve got to figure it out, right? But…

I’d rather not say I don’t know. I’d rather have the answers so that we can make smart decisions and then know what’s working and what’s not so they can invest in the right places and ultimately grow their business. Because marketing should be an investment, not an expense.

Josh Donnelly (35:44.452)
I like that. Sorry, I’m taking notes here, like the old-fashioned way.

Curtis Hays (35:47.193)
I’m

Josh Donnelly (35:50.308)
I’m filling up a notebook.

Tom Nixon (35:51.513)
Good. I feel like we’re starting to get to the why. And obviously, we should note that this typically takes hours, days, weeks, because we would want to go then, you know, interview a bunch of other people. But we’re going to, for the sake of argument, say, you know,

Josh Donnelly (35:59.693)
Yeah.

Curtis Hays (36:05.465)
Talk about that real quick, Tom. Who would you, we’d interview stakeholders. Talk about that process real quick. And Josh, I know you do something very similar.

Tom Nixon (36:09.282)
Yep.

So let’s imagine this is a mature brand and not just an idea. would interview the founder at any key leadership in probably one meeting. Then we’d want to go, okay, we know what the boardroom thinks, but that’s probably somewhat divorced from reality. So let’s go talk to the sales and service people. The salespeople are going to tell us what clicks when they make a sale or what the buying objections are. So now we can start to understand how do we message this to overcome objectives and lean into motivators.

Then I want to talk to the service people because they’re the ones that get all the complaints, but they’re also the ones that get all the attaboys and five star reviews. So what is what impression are we making on these people? They come to us and say, you’ve changed my life. This is incredible. I used to be have anxiety in feelings of inadequacy, and now I’m a champion. I walk in this room proudly and I’m like, bring it on. And I only have to have one browser window open. No tabs, one. That feels pretty cool.

Curtis Hays (37:09.497)
Mm-hmm.

Tom Nixon (37:10.422)
So now I would start to orient my messaging ground. And then I would ultimately, I’d want to talk to the people who have already purchased the product to hear directly from them. What was life like before you bought it? How did it change your life? And tell me what life’s like now. If we can do that, then we can remap it and message to those people who are outside of the storytelling funnel because they’re unaware. They just know they have a problem. They might not even know that there’s a category of solution that even would solve this problem. So they’re not looking for it. Right. So anyways, that’s what I would do. So

Sorry, Josh, over to you.

Curtis Hays (37:40.133)
So this is what happens when the business owner themselves writes the ad copy. They write it from their point of view. This is written from my point of view.

Josh Donnelly (37:47.019)
What? Yeah, and I mean if you were to do like, know the traditional like what’s your elevator pitch this this is fine, right? You’re you’re talking to somebody trying to explain like literally like business to business You’re explaining the idea all in one lead journey intelligence platform that helps you track lead score intent. Yada. Yada Yada Cool that works as an elevator pitch to an extent But when we’re doing something like this where we’re actually trying to take somebody who has zero awareness of this and you’re not there to explain the details to them and then we

we walk them through this process of not just storytelling, like understanding the brand and the value that you bring to the table. That’s where like this, this needs to shift one. need to actually talk to them, not just explain what the concept is, but actually speak to them. and then, you know, as Tom was saying, a lot of this depends on both key stakeholders and current users. What do the users find beneficial about this and how do we speak to those benefits? But if, if I was,

If I was taking something like this and we were starting to ideate some headlines that would work, obviously we don’t want to get too wordy, but can we focus more on clarity, understanding the customer journey, providing clarity, and I like that boost conversions or increase revenue or whatever, it’s an outcome, assuming we can point to that, that’s an outcome that can be derived from all of this. So is it something like…

you know, understand your customer journey with ultimate clarity. Okay, now we’re starting to talk about, you know, what they are, what they’re going to get from this. And then we can, then we can piggyback on that with track leads, score intent, visualize funnels, boost conversions, et cetera. or increase revenue through smarter journeys, right? Or it’s like, let’s talk big picture. Then we can get into the fact that you’re an all in one platform that does all these things. You know what I mean?

Understand your customer. Yeah, so again like Tom said it takes we got to workshop these a little bit but like something along those lines

Curtis Hays (39:46.647)
Yeah, well, that’s what we’re doing. So Tom, what are your thoughts here?

Tom Nixon (39:47.245)
Right. Yeah. So I was going to say until you started typing over what you had, it’s almost like you could demote everything you had one level, like the, the all in one solution or whatever it said is your how that would go where track leads and blah, blah, blah goes, because that’s what it does. Right. All in one is how it, can’t remember everything you said up there. I know you can control Z and go back or control Y, whatever it is.

Josh Donnelly (39:58.7)
Totally, yeah.

Curtis Hays (39:59.32)
Bring it all down here.

Curtis Hays (40:21.975)
Yeah, so you’re saying this goes down here.

Tom Nixon (40:22.412)
Yeah, I it does what one of the other examples does it kind of it’s how language that hints at the what right? So I like journey intelligence is more maybe even better than tracking leads. The tracking leads is what it does. But let me propose I love what Josh did. So I think you’d already be better off. Let me just maybe suggested alternate approach that just leans entirely into why it doesn’t even bring up.

Josh Donnelly (40:23.841)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (40:51.276)
the what doesn’t even hint at it going back to this anxiety where you felt like you had these feelings of an accuracy and you’re scared that somebody is going to ask you a question to justify ROI. Again, I would need to workshop this. This is just spitballing, but all the data you need to justify your marketing spend in a single browser window. I think that delivers how you alleviate the pain and it shows them what the other side could look like.

Curtis Hays (41:21.209)
Wait, all that needs to justify your spend.

Tom Nixon (41:23.894)
marketing spend maybe.

in a single browser window.

Curtis Hays (41:35.373)
And obviously.

Tom Nixon (41:35.459)
Now, is it perfect? No. But what I tried to do is capture what you told me was the thing that was motivating you to invent this company that didn’t exist because you’re, you can’t live. I always ask my clients, clients, what happened to, what was the trigger that you said? I can’t live like this anymore. I got to find a better way. That’s what we want to capture. So that when that next customer comes and lands on this website, even if they don’t understand how it works yet that we’ve articulated, we know the pain you’re experiencing. And guess what? We invented something to make that go away.

How does that sound? Well, that sounds really good. What is this?

Curtis Hays (42:06.701)
Yeah, and you could almost have a visual here with maybe even a video too that shows like what it’s normally like and you’re flipping through dashboards and Looker Studio stuff and then a one browser window of this platform where everything’s right there, right? Yeah.

Tom Nixon (42:23.224)
Something like that. Yep. And then I love what, what Josh had up here. Maybe that’s even the better how maybe that’s the, but anyways, now you’ve got all.

Josh Donnelly (42:32.788)
Yeah, no, I like this, cause…

Curtis Hays (42:33.111)
Right. That was the like understand your customer journey with ultimate Clary. And then you could almost do something like that.

Josh Donnelly (42:39.53)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think what Tom’s nailing here is like this, this awareness section should be this, like highly aspirational. can be kind of like big picture, big statement. that’s why I think something like this, like all in one window or whether it’s focusing on revenue, like increasing that revenue or, you know, at one of the examples I had in my sort of arsenal here was, Stripe, which their lead in is financial infrastructure to grow your revenue.

Right? So they’re not getting into, we’re a payment processor and we accept, you know, however many different kinds of cards internationally across however many, like all of that is for later on in the storytelling. Their big picture is just, you’re going to be able to increase revenue with the best infrastructure there is. And so I love this, you know, maybe, maybe we play on what Tom’s saying. And again, this is all part of that workshopping because there’s this healthy balance of the right words here with also the right visual length. Cause if we could probably get the right

verbiage but like this going to whatever what is that five lines like that feels a little heavy right so then we start playing with the design aspect of it making it feel like it can breathe more but do we play do we go down a path of like okay so justify is that like peace of mind do we say like peace of mind you know marketing marketing peace of mind all in one window or you know like something along those lines where it’s like this short snappy statement

Curtis Hays (43:44.43)
Yeah.

Josh Donnelly (44:04.543)
could work is that elevator pitch in more of an edgy way. And then we can start explaining it further as the person goes down the page. We just want to make sure that they know why they’re here and that they’re in the right place. And then we have the rest of the page to explain the how and the why and the what to them even further, right?

Tom Nixon (44:22.976)
Exactly. Could I just jump in a quick little sidebar on elevator pitches? Cause I think that it’s valuable. I, I, a student of Sandler sales training and the problem with, think you guys would recognize this with elevator pitches is people wordsmith them to death to the point that nobody actually uses them in the real world because they can’t memorize them. They’re too rote. It’s just like, so I was taught this awesome way of doing it and it’s called, dyk. I help with that.

Curtis Hays (44:23.043)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Josh Donnelly (44:39.053)
yeah.

Tom Nixon (44:52.354)
The dyk part is you always start your elevator pitch and I’ll use this as an example. you’re a performance marketer. Curtis says, yes. do you know how, like when you’re trying to create a report for a client and it’s not a single tool, you got to grab from like 10 billion tools. You got 32 tabs open. The client asks you a question. You’re like, what window is that? You feel like a dork because you don’t have the answer, but you do have the answer. You just got to find it. You don’t know where to find it. You know how that feeling of anxiety you get when you’re in those meetings? Curtis would say, yes, I help with that.

Boom. Now I’m listening because you just said, wait, you make that go away? So I think you apply that to, because A, it’s easy to remember that type of language because you’re just describing a problem. And I just made it up. But it’s also, it captures, it doesn’t sound like a sales pitch. It’s like, I’m really explaining to you what I do in words that anyone could understand. So I think if you apply that methodology to marketing copy, I think there’s something to that as well.

Josh Donnelly (45:50.451)
Totally agree. I love that. DYK.

Tom Nixon (45:54.222)
DYK, I help with that.

Curtis Hays (45:57.764)
So I know we got to wrap up. I’m hoping, Tom, I could show one quick thing here. So you guys are the experts, but could I pick you up against AI and see how well AI did?

Tom Nixon (46:09.415)
man, it gets machine. Yes, but if I if we lose, I reserve the right to edit this part out of the podcast.

Josh Donnelly (46:11.135)
Let’s do it.

Curtis Hays (46:17.337)
Only the live people will know.

Josh Donnelly (46:17.567)
No, that’s right. As you’re pulling that up, I think, I think this is a great example, depending on, we’ll see how this goes. Right. But I think this is a great example of, well, can you train a model on this is what, you know, our, our methods for storytelling are. And then you, then you get five versions of a headline that we could kind of workshop. And it does, it speeds up this process that Tom and I are saying, Oh, it might take, you know, X amount of days or X amount of hours to, come up with the right headline. Well, I think we’re onto something now. So could we just get.

through AI, some directional headlines that we can then workshop a little bit faster. think there’s this like ebb and flow of what we do and how we can leverage AI to speed up that process. anyway.

Curtis Hays (47:00.697)
No, 100%. Yeah. And I gave AI really the same information, you you had Tom and Josh, you guys had access to. I built the sort of company concept and gave it to AI. We built a website that didn’t approach things the way we recommend, the way a lot of companies do, leading with the what’s. And then I said, okay, let’s reposition it with

our frameworks. Now it leaned into, I like where you went, Tom, which is interesting that you went more for the emotional feeling, the anxiety, right. AI took confusion, so which isn’t really a feeling. I mean, so it was like thinking more of the chaos that exists with the data. so, you know, so clarity, confusion, it more used those words than maybe emotional words in the copy.

Tom Nixon (47:39.03)
I’m not a robot. I am not a robot.

Curtis Hays (48:00.44)
which I could see a big difference there because while this might resonate, it maybe doesn’t resonate at the same level as I might have where you actually press a button at an emotional level with a potential consumer, right?

Tom Nixon (48:16.3)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I actually like this headline. What I what I like about it is what most clients wouldn’t like about it because it doesn’t say what we do and I try to push back on that. People are going to know what you do by the time they get to the website. What they want to know is why they should care, right? So they just didn’t happen on your website, right? Like you turn to the TV station back in the day and you’re flipping. I wonder what’s on NBC.

Curtis Hays (48:27.491)
Yeah.

Josh Donnelly (48:36.177)
Yes.

Tom Nixon (48:43.106)
No, they got there because either you sent them there or they went looking for you. So I love I would even turn my question is, is it strong enough to your point? Curtis? Is this is this the emotional confusion is what’s motivating the confusion? I like turn chaos into confidence actually better because what you described to me

Curtis Hays (48:58.487)
Mm-hmm.

Josh Donnelly (49:00.446)
It’s literally, I got that in my notes here. So I think piggybacking on what you’re saying, so I agree that we don’t need to be literal. don’t need to explain. People can figure that part out. I do think there’s an element of establishing, it’s what I call positioning in the hero, where it’s like, we do want people to know, like, if you were here without context,

Curtis Hays (49:03.993)
Thank

Josh Donnelly (49:24.349)
to your point, not a lot of people are doing that, but if you’re here without context, is this like therapy? Like, I don’t know, confusion into confidence. you know, what, kind of tool am I looking at? So do we say something like, you know, marketing chaos to ROI confidence or something, you know, like something where it’s like, it just helps. Maybe we don’t even need to be that specific, but it helps sort of establish the industry and the tool that we’re addressing, but using sort of these big picture ideas of like, we can provide confidence for chaos, right? Or.

or solutions for that chaos. But I don’t hate this at all, right? Like this is that big sort of abstract, very confident idea, confusion to confidence.

Curtis Hays (49:54.361)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (49:56.907)
or

Tom Nixon (50:05.806)
I know we’re not going to solve this today, but if you just had turned lead tracking, caos into confidence, then you’ve done what you, I think what you’re suggesting. Yep.

Josh Donnelly (50:12.657)
Totally. Yeah, now I-

Curtis Hays (50:15.949)
turn lead tracking chaos into confidence. I see where you’re going. Yeah.

Tom Nixon (50:18.136)
Chaos.

Tom Nixon (50:25.87)
You know, what’s funny is I typically when I’m rewriting copy for clients, you know, they say rewrite our website when I get down to the what level by the way, like where you are now, I almost never change anything because they’ve got the what’s fully understood. Now, if they’re speaking over the prospects head, then I’m going to say you have to speak in their language, change your tone or whatever. But usually they know that down what they can’t articulate is why anyone should care. So it’s funny. Once we get past the how my I start glaze it over, I’m like, you got it.

Josh Donnelly (50:38.876)
Right.

Josh Donnelly (50:54.234)
Well, and I would one thing that I typically do in Curtis you’re aware of this like I it’s part of sort of my structure and how I do storytelling but I would love to before you get into that how it works section which has a lot of the features in it which I think is great right the lead funnel visualizer smart lead scoring etc but before we get into that green section down there let’s break it up with just like a short maybe it’s three or four items summary right above that that is

Like those outcome benefits. So the things that like we talked about on the previous homepage

Curtis Hays (51:25.403)
I kind of had something here, but I never really flushed this out at the very bottom. So you’re saying like, you know, get these outcome based typed things up here. Yeah.

Josh Donnelly (51:31.818)
Yeah

Josh Donnelly (51:36.282)
Yeah, like on the previous homepage that sentence you had said something like track lead score intent visualize funnels What what if we sort of? again Keep it simple. It should fit just like those percentages. You just had it should fit very simply It’s just something for your eye to catch as you’re scrolling through but let’s summarize those benefits or or the way the tool can be used So do we say something like, you know enhanced lead tracking or clarity and lead tracking? You know

a more efficient way to score intents. Like, don’t know, that might be a little wordy, but it’s like, can we hit those almost like bullet points before we get into how it works? Because now I’m saying we’re gonna provide confidence for your lead gen chaos, right? So your customer journey chaos has confidence. How do we do that? With better lead tracking, better intent scoring, better visualizing of your funnels.

And that’s sort of like just the bullet points. Then we get into features, which is kind of what this section is here. Finally, clarity at every stage with the lead funnel visualizer, smart scoring, AI powered, et cetera, et cetera. And you get into more of like the actual tool set and what it does, right?

Tom Nixon (52:45.902)
And I got one final recommendation because Josh was spot on when he said like elevate the social proof as long as you’re making up these testimonials Curtis, let’s make one up that tells the story that you told us and maybe you’ve got a picture of a fake person there that doesn’t look fake. Hopefully, but they say something like I used to dread going into metrics, reporting meetings. Now I can’t wait. Curtis Hayes, senior digital marketer kaleidoscope. So social proof and it’s like

Curtis Hays (52:46.265)
100%.

Tom Nixon (53:13.794)
telling that story you told me in 12 words. anyways, that’s the trick. Easy.

Curtis Hays (53:22.637)
I think you guys did better than AI. Though AI seemed to help. And I’ll say I built this brand with AI, including the website and the logo and the images. It was probably two hours.

Josh Donnelly (53:25.348)
It’s…

Josh Donnelly (53:34.297)
That’s all again. I think it is incredible for speeding up the process and especially like once you have a methodology like Tom does like I do like you do for for building and structuring these things There’s no reason that we need to spend an hour trying to workshop a headline when you could be like here’s kind of the vein I’m thinking let’s get 15 headlines back and then workshop those together to form the perfect one, right? So I think I think it’s an it’s an incredible tool in the toolbox

Curtis Hays (53:39.694)
Yes.

Josh Donnelly (54:02.949)
to help speed up the process of what we’re already doing.

Tom Nixon (54:08.184)
Yep. Agreed. And we all use AI. think the moral of the story, at least at this point is AI will get you pretty darn close. It’s up to you to get it over the finish line though. And that was not the finish line, right? Confidence was, we all thought wasn’t quite exactly what you were trying to convey. So, but it got us onto something. We were like, yeah. Right. So anyways, that was fun. do we keep our jobs Curtis or are you outsourcing down to AI? Cool. Awesome.

Josh Donnelly (54:32.226)
Awesome. Awesome.

Curtis Hays (54:33.037)
No, you guys get to stay. You guys get to stay. I need you. But more importantly, I think that I want prospects or existing customers to watch this because I think it’s a good understanding. think you get maybe a little bit of tunnel vision or concern when somebody’s picking apart your own brand. There is actually a little bit of anxiety when you’re saying,

Josh Donnelly (54:58.46)
yeah.

Curtis Hays (54:59.641)
You’re not quite explaining your product the way you should to your customer base. Like, nobody knows it better than me. What do mean you’re telling me I’m not explaining it right? And what we’re saying is know that just reframing it and repositioning it in a different way because you’re so close to it, because it’s your baby. Let us think about it from the customer’s perspective. Let’s hear from the customers and then let’s position it to go and find more people like them.

and your tendency is going to make yourself the hero, let us make your customer the hero, and then you’ll be the hero by making your customers be the hero, right? So that’s what I get out of it. don’t know. Any final thoughts from you, Josh? What do you think?

Tom Nixon (55:39.362)
Well said.

Josh Donnelly (55:45.252)
Yeah, I mean, I think what we did here today, this is like the first step to, I think something to keep in mind is we’re talking right now about the storytelling on the homepage, which I do think is some of the most important, because that’s typically your first inbound page, it’s your front door. But then I typically call sort of that bottom section that we didn’t even really address today, that’s your springboard. That’s what takes people deeper into the site to the various aspects. So you might have a page for…

Lead funnel visualizer that talks about that specific feature and if that’s what resonates with Josh when he visits the site I springboard right from the home page to the lead funnel visualizer and so we really need to think about how The story we’re telling on the home page daisy chains into all the internal pages of the site and then that gets into like the Navigation should function as a funnel as well that takes us from the home page to what matters next Is it solutions or is it about do people care about you or do they care about the solutions they get?

then we go into pricing and then we go into a conversion page. it’s all of these things need to work hand in hand. So we just sort of, you know, in our, what was this, about an hour, we just sort of scratched the surface here of what would typically go into a redesign, the storytelling, the branding, the voice, the tone, all of that kind of stuff. there’s, there’s still, there’s a lot to do now after the fact, but I do think we made some good progress here in sort of defining what lead mosaic is and how we talk to the customer with more clarity.

Curtis Hays (57:10.435)
Close this out, Tom. What are your final thoughts?

Tom Nixon (57:10.614)
Absolutely. My final thought is why how what ask for it by name. See you next time on Bullhorns and Bullseyes.

Josh Donnelly (57:17.016)
Hahaha