The Power of Active Listening in Sales

Tom Nixon (00:01.541)
Welcome back everyone to Bullhorns and Bulls Eyes. Curtis, I think a little housekeeping is in order before we bring on today’s guest because I believe this is episode 33 of season one and we should tell people we’re sort of rounding into the home stretch here. Why don’t you share with everyone what our plans are for the culmination of season one.

Curtis Hays (00:24.064)
Good idea. Yeah, I can, I can feel this one for sure. So yeah, it’s just, it’s been about a year since we started this, at least recorded episode one. It was a little bit later that we actually launched that episode. And I think it’s smart always, whatever you’re doing to take a break, you know, the golf season by the end of the, by the end of the summer, maybe you’ve, you’ve had enough and it’s like, okay, winter’s coming. It’s time to take a break. I’ll recharge, you know, baseball doesn’t go all year long.

Chris Jimenez (00:34.834)
.

Chris Jimenez (00:41.514)
.

Curtis Hays (00:52.928)
They still play a hundred and what is it? 84 games, but they 162. I’m not sure in the playoffs. yeah, this is true. So, I think it’s good to take a break. So what we’re going to try to do is finish up with 40 episodes. I know we’ve got one bonus episode in there that’ll take it to 41. I’d like to close out, with our original guest, Mario. And I’ve asked Mario to come on.

Tom Nixon (00:55.685)
62, yeah.

True. Yeah. But where did you try? We don’t remember what that’s like.

Chris Jimenez (01:13.598)
you

Curtis Hays (01:20.96)
in our second to last episode and then number 40, you and I will kind of close everything out and maybe by that time we’ll have some idea of what season two might look like. And I’m interested in doing season two. I think I formally asked you if you were interested.

Tom Nixon (01:37.797)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m just glad to have a job for sure. Yeah. I’ll keep going. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Curtis Hays (01:41.792)
We’re making loads of money doing this, aren’t we? I’m going to stop my day job.

Chris Jimenez (01:46.066)
.

Tom Nixon (01:49.445)
Well, the other thing we think is important to do is also to recheck in. So on your marketing efforts, whatever it is. And so that’s a good reason and excuse to bring Mario back because he’s kind of a master in doing that is stopping evaluating where we’ve been and then what are the wins and then what are the projected wins going forward? So.

Curtis Hays (02:07.104)
Yep. It’ll have been a year since he was on. And so what’s he been working on this last year? How have things been progressing? And we’ve been working on some new stuff with him, a lot of which he’s learned and we’ve learned from guests that have been on the podcast. So I think it’ll be interesting to kind of tie those things together and what we’ve been putting into practice. And, and I think there’s a lot in future for Mario as well, things we’re working on. So it’d be fun to address that as well.

Chris Jimenez (02:16.082)
.

Tom Nixon (02:22.181)
True.

Tom Nixon (02:33.861)
True. Yep. Well, getting in just under the wire before we close out season one is today’s guest. Somebody you’ve worked with in the past. Why don’t you invite him on?

Curtis Hays (02:43.744)
Yeah. So excited to welcome Chris Jimenez. Chris was a project manager a long time ago, about probably 16 years ago. I met Chris and came on to an organization I was with and spent some time with us, helping us with project management on the web development side, trying to improve some of our processes and those types of things. And then I think you went back to the previous company you were with prior to us hiring up. We stole you.

Chris Jimenez (02:59.506)
.

Curtis Hays (03:13.152)
And they were like, crap, we just lost a really good employee and they wanted you back. So they got you back, which, sad, we lost you, but happy for you. And I think in that time you sort of moved from project management to some organizational development and operations and those types of things. But now you’re doing something completely different, Chris. And,

Chris Jimenez (03:17.554)
Okay.

Chris Jimenez (03:34.337)
Yeah.

Curtis Hays (03:41.248)
I want you to talk a little bit about that journey. I reconnected what we’ve been connected on LinkedIn, but you posted some interesting stuff lately that you’re kind of in a new career and you’ve got your own coaching business, which I get excited about because I love seeing these professionals sort of transform out of being employees into starting their own business and doing consulting and helping other people. So, yeah, tell, tell us a little bit about that journey and what you’re doing right now, Chris.

Chris Jimenez (04:09.674)
Yeah, thanks, Curtis. And thanks, Tom, for having me on with you. It’s really an honor. Happy to expand on that. You did a great job, though, summarizing.

Yeah, right now I’m actually in the coaching space. So working on career coaching and executive coaching. So my business is called Alter Orbit Coaching. And the purpose of that is really, I’ve seen so many in my career that kind of get stuck. They’re in this pattern of going to work and just accepting what’s happening to them. And really it starts to reduce their potential.

for happiness. They don’t really quite understand why it’s not going the way it wants, they need it to go, but they just want help. And in my career, I’ve spent a lot of time working with people on the side, both officially as an HR person, but also just as being a friend to people at the office who are looking for help with cultural situations, just wanting to be heard once in a while.

So Altra Orbit was created to help them break free of those patterns where they just kind of accept what’s given to them. And ultimately, have a really great career until they get to the point where they’re ready to retire instead of just surviving to retire.

Tom Nixon (05:29.861)
Great.

Curtis Hays (05:30.112)
Yeah, that’s great. We had a recent episode, didn’t we? Tom, we were talking actually with Franco. We were on Franco’s podcast and we were talking about the need for a mentor, the need for a coach, whether you’re in sales or marketing or you’re in any other career, it’s good to have some peers who hold you accountable, a coach who can help you grow. So this is pretty awesome what you’re doing, Chris, to take the 20 plus years experience that you have that you can, you can, you know, pass on to people and help them grow.

Chris Jimenez (05:58.766)
Yeah, thanks Curtis. It’s I’m excited. I’m definitely excited to be in this new chapter in my life and really help people who didn’t have that ally before.

Tom Nixon (05:58.789)
Yeah, for sure.

Curtis Hays (06:07.424)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (06:08.037)
Yeah. Speaking of Franco Curtis, so, when we had the Franco folks on the podcast, I shared that I kind of cut my teeth at Franco, not exactly my first job in this career, but close to it. And I’ll never forget one of the very first meetings that the president, the president CEO of the company brought me to, and it was a new business pitch. And I was nervous. Of course, I was so junior and green and you know, I’m a natural introvert as I told people many times on this podcast.

So I went there with the intent of just taking really good notes. That was one thing I knew I was good at, even if I wasn’t sure what I was good at yet in marketing and PR and everything that my career would become, but I was going to take really good notes. So I sat in this meeting and I think to myself, no one’s going to care what I have to say. Right. So I’m going to keep my mouth shut, stay out of the way. And I’m not going to blow this new business pitch for my boss. Is she so smart and she’s got these people eating out of the palm of her hands and

Meaning goes good. At one point, I think somebody asked me a question as if, you know, I was supposed to have any sort of insights, which I didn’t feel like I had. Don’t remember how I answered it, but I remember in the car ride going home, Chris, my boss at the time says, time, you really something you need to work on is becoming an active listener. And I thought to myself, active, listen, I was taking so many frickin notes I could I could off the top of my head.

Chris Jimenez (07:22.49)
Hmm.

Tom Nixon (07:30.373)
tell you verbatim what people said in this meeting. I was listening so intently, but I’m getting called out on this ride home for something that I thought I was doing. So it stuck with me to that day. Like what was I doing wrong? What’s active listening? It’s a why don’t you because we want to cover that topic today. Active listening in the role it plays in sales and marketing. What was I doing wrong? And what did she mean by active listening in your view?

Chris Jimenez (07:54.762)
Yeah, you know, I think especially when you’re in a new situation like that, taking copious notes is pretty important because you want to get it right, like you said. But with active listening, where you

when you’re taking so many notes and you’re worried about getting it just right, you’re not necessarily listening and being fully present for what’s happening around you, right? So it’s about reading the body language of a person saying something and saying, okay, when they, when they gave you that direction, what were they doing? Were their arms crossed? Were they looking at the ceiling? Were they trying to look around the room to see who else might be nodding their heads? Like, okay, am I saying the safe thing in front of Tom?

Those types of things can be difficult to pick up on when you’re looking down at your notes. And you might have a really great transcript of everything that happened in that meeting, but to really understand what was said and also what was not said. Being fully present is a big key part of that active listening skill.

Tom Nixon (08:51.525)
Yep. I happened to notice Curtis that like, as I was thinking back, I remember the boss, Lisa, she was always nodding her head and looking intently back at the person. And I was like, maybe I should have been done. I should have done that. But if you found yourself trying to understand or try to exercise what active listening is yourself.

Curtis Hays (09:12.576)
not intentionally, but I did this yesterday. So we had a meeting yesterday. We were doing some storytelling framework work with a client. And I said to Steph on the way to that meeting, I’m not, I’m not taking my notebook. I’m not taking a computer. I’m not going to take notes. She, we’re going to, we recorded the meeting and teams and then your, I said, your otter is going to capture everything.

Chris Jimenez (09:29.078)
.

Curtis Hays (09:39.008)
So we’re using this Otter AI tool that’s transcribing everything, right? So it’s like, what’s the point of me taking notes just so I’d look like I’m paying attention? I’m not a good note taker anyway. And so it, it was a little awkward for me feeling like, is the customer because I don’t have that in front of me? I literally walked into the room with nothing in my hand, no briefcase, no computer, no, no, no pad, nothing.

Chris Jimenez (09:47.27)
Hmm.

Tom Nixon (09:47.813)
You

Curtis Hays (10:05.728)
but I was fully engaged for the entire 90 minutes that we were in that meeting. I thought, I mean, you ran most of the meeting, asked all the important questions, but I felt like I was fully engaged in that whole thing. And if I need to go back and reference anything, I’ve got the recording and I’ve got Otter.

Tom Nixon (10:13.893)
Well, what’s interesting is.

Tom Nixon (10:24.357)
And you’ve got my notes because I was taking notes and there was another person there taking notes. What was interesting, though, is you kind of got me out of a bind at one point. Not that I was stumbling, but I was, you know, I was kind of like wondering where to go next. And probably because you were so engaged, you took over the conversation at a certain point. I’m like, I was thinking to myself, he’s spot on here. This is great. So I noticed it without even noticing it. So Chris is when we talk about active listening. So go back into in the realm of like a sales pitch. So this is

Curtis Hays (10:25.568)
Right. Stephanie was taking notes. Yep.

Chris Jimenez (10:52.566)
Mm -hmm.

Tom Nixon (10:53.989)
Maybe we’re trying to win the business. How does active listening affect whether or not we’re doing an effective job in the sales and pitching and marketing process?

Chris Jimenez (11:05.17)
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think when it comes down to being in that sales process, it’s really about doing the best you can to put your own goals and targets off the side. To really demonstrate active listening with somebody who is about to buy something from you, it’s really about setting aside that agenda and making the person that you’re sitting with make their agenda your agenda. I think it’s a great way to practice

Even if you’re not sure what to do or you’re thinking in the back of your head, the boss is going to make me hit this quota. I need to get this sale or else I’m in trouble. You’re probably going to be better off getting that sale. If you’re actually there in the room, listening to what they’re saying. And more importantly, like I said before, listening to what they’re not saying. Are they afraid of something? Are they worried about the business closing? Are they concerned that the customers coming through are bringing up something they can’t solve?

and they just want you to solve it for them. You really have to really zone in on the language being used and the overall kind of the vibe that you’re feeling in that space because really they might be exuding fear. They might be exuding pressure that they’re feeling. They might be worried about making their next mortgage payment. And if you’re going in there thinking about, well, if I don’t hit this target, I’m not going to give my bonus.

The two of you will never connect. And as a result of that, the odds of closing that sale go down. You know, we’re all really just people trying to make it through the world right now. There’s a lot on our plates and we all have our objectives, but the more that we can connect genuinely and have that authenticity together, the better outcomes for both parties.

Curtis Hays (12:51.264)
Tom, this reminds me of two previous conversations we had one Dave tier. We talked about mirroring and matching. And if, if, so making somebody feel comfortable with you on the other end of the table, if I pick up my cup and take a drink and you pick up your cup and take a drink, that’s the mirroring and matching. And you can’t do that if you’re not paying attention to the other person, like what you’re saying, Chris, like you can’t, you know, how

Tom Nixon (12:58.309)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Jimenez (13:11.534)
All right.

Curtis Hays (13:18.944)
If you’re heads down, taking notes, whatever, you’re not actively engaged with that person. There’s no opportunity for you guys to feel comfortable with each other in that conversation. And then the other conversation we had was, was with Kate and discussing, Kate Simon, who’s the real estate sales agent of just like putting yourself in the position of where that customer or that buyer is at. Right. And relating to them in that situation, are they.

Chris Jimenez (13:46.562)
Yeah.

Curtis Hays (13:49.056)
in a worry state right now, are they in a state where they’re not even ready to buy, but you’re just trying to push the sale again to meet a quota, like you said, Chris, right? So understanding that you have to be an active listener in order to know where that person’s actually at in their journey.

Chris Jimenez (14:06.141)
Yeah. Well, and that’s the thing. There’s many different famous quotes about things like that where people won’t remember what you did, but they’ll remember how you made them feel. That doesn’t, that’s not only for HR people. That’s not only for a manager and employee. That’s something that’s actually really important in this world, especially with how transactional everything is right now. You know, Netflix is going to take their $25 out of your account.

every single month, and then I’m going to know your name. They don’t even care about you. So as a salesperson connecting with another human being in a world where everything is so automated and transactional, you have an opportunity to change the way a person feels about you, your product, your company, really even maybe even just giving them hope about the fact that salesmen actually still care. Those are types of things that I think are really important in today’s time where distance and

You know, really almost kind of just being forgotten, like people just constantly in your wallet taking money out. And it’s that human connection and making someone feel seen and heard is very important no matter who you’re working with. It doesn’t matter if it’s the most junior person in that company or the CEO, they should all be treated the same. They’re human beings trying to make it through the world.

Tom Nixon (15:21.765)
Yeah, you emphasize the difference between seeking to be heard and seeking to be or to mutually understand. So here’s another one of my favorite quotes by I think it was a Greek philosopher Epictetus who said we have two ears and one mouth so that we listen twice as much as we speak. Are you a believer that in sales, the salesperson who says the least wins the most?

Chris Jimenez (15:44.27)
I am, I am because it’s just how we’re wired. I mean, we go through our days. Everyone, so imagine this, everyone in today’s society, you look at social media, for example, everyone’s yelling, right? Like we’re all kind of yelling things, but we don’t yell like important things. It’s just yelling two sentences at a time and then walking away. And because everybody’s so easily able to talk now, the idea of being heard and understood is just kind of.

almost like inherent. yeah, well, everyone’s out there. Everyone’s talking. It’s all fine. No, it’s more like a person walks into a room, screams two sentences, and then walks out of the room. Then the next person walks in and screams two sentences, walks out of the room. There’s not a conversation. And because of that, things that we used to take for granted in having a community and human interaction, now having that connection where you’re sitting there and you’re saying, hey,

I’m here for you customer. My pen is down or maybe it’s just ready to take some important notes, but I’m locked in on you. And as we talk, I’m gonna give you something that you haven’t felt all day long today. I’m gonna be here for you. That’s not something people feel anymore in the course of their day. So a salesperson actually has a unique opportunity, more so than maybe any other role in a company to come in and be that connection.

with another person and give them some love for a minute. And in the process, you’re probably gonna make that connection turn into a sale because it’s just so rare.

Curtis Hays (17:19.328)
This, this sounds like a Mario’s company, Tom. So what do you find interesting, Chris, in, in what you said, what I find interesting and this anecdotal sort of data point that we’ve discovered over the last couple of years might be interesting to you. Now we’ve seen consumers from a lead gen sort of marketing perspective move away from filling out lead forms and chat bots on websites, which that was the push.

Tom Nixon (17:19.653)
Yeah.

Chris Jimenez (17:43.374)
Okay.

Curtis Hays (17:45.216)
for many years, like, let’s get them fill out a form or let’s have a chat bot up on the website and it’ll be easier and more convenient for that user. People are tired of that. They actually want to speak to a human being. And so we’ve seen this drastic increase over the year, the last year, two years, maybe some of it was, was driven by the pandemic of us being sort of sheltered and you know, whatnot. I’m sure there’s a ton of psychology behind all of this that I have no insight to, but all I know is.

Tom Nixon (17:56.901)
Mm.

Chris Jimenez (17:58.402)
Yes.

Curtis Hays (18:14.432)
People want to pick up the phone and call our customers now. And so we’re telling our customers like we’ve got to have placement of a phone number, easily accessible on the website. We’ve got to make it easy for those prospects to call you. But at the same time, you have to have the people who are answering that phone show compassion, be prepared for what to expect because of that volume is now increasing and we’re pushing it.

Chris Jimenez (18:27.861)
Yeah.

Curtis Hays (18:43.2)
that way, make sure those people are all properly trained and then routing it internally to the right people. And where we see Mario winning, when we just did some customer surveys is that their customers feel like they’re being hurt and they’re being taken care of. Right? So that compassion you’re talking about, this is a very compassionate type business. and they’re, they’re winning with that. Right, right, Tom. I mean, he saw this in all your research.

Chris Jimenez (18:57.702)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (19:09.381)
Absolutely. And I, Chris, it goes back to, I think what you’re saying is that people want to be heard in typing into a autonomous and anonymous chat bot doesn’t feel like you’re being heard. It feels like you’re being triaged.

Chris Jimenez (19:22.55)
Right. Exactly. It’s just, you’re just being managed at that point, right? And I think right now with the trends in AI being what they are,

I think people are starting to get a little nervous that human connection is just going to be a thing of the past. Like you can talk to your neighbors maybe, but if you are spending money and you need a problem solved, good luck. And I think that is an opportunity for, for sales, but also, and Curtis, you bring up a great point when it comes to like even the, the call center side of things, right? So you have everybody set up. You, you’re incentivizing people to call. You want them to feel like that’s part of your offering is to be like, we’re here for you.

Now the trap is to make sure that you’re also not doing some kind of reward system internally in your call center that rewards them for being fast or rewards them for quickly getting through the decision tree. Like this is a chance to slow down. Everybody just slow down. Money is harder to spend right now. So when somebody is spending money, take the time to listen, hear what they’re saying.

work through their problem, make sure they truly feel that they have a solution in hand and not, like I said earlier, being managed. Everyone’s being managed in some way. You don’t want to be managed while you’re spending your own money. You want to have that support and feel like that it was worth it to invest in that company.

Tom Nixon (20:48.325)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s Curtis. It’s, you know, something that dawned on me in a previous episode, which you’ll remember. And I want to get Chris’s take on this. Going back to the listening twice as much as you speak. Neither Curtis nor I have a pitch deck. Like if somebody called and made an appointment said, walk us through your capabilities deck. I don’t have that. And I don’t have that for two reasons. And I want to get your take, Curtis. One is I have no idea what this person who needs to hear from me.

even has terms of pain or their problem or even if I can solve it. So if I just jump into, well, here’s how I do this rather. I’m totally missing the opportunity for them to be here heard and for me to hear what is ailing them. And so I remember Curtis, I said, I know it’s not out of laziness that you don’t have a deck because I know you’re not a lazy person. So explain again why you don’t have a deck in the last get Chris’s take on whether we should or the best way to present in a new business pitch.

Curtis Hays (21:44.928)
Yeah. So I come from an IT background where I was a problem solver. I, one of my first jobs was on a help desk. I suppose sort of naturally, maybe that was growing up with a couple of sisters, and in an environment where we sort of had good communication and the family, like I could relate and communicate with people, but I’m also a talker. I do have a hard time. Like not talking, but in help desk, like.

Chris Jimenez (22:12.542)
Okay.

Curtis Hays (22:14.784)
You’re forced to ask questions, not necessarily about the person, which I wouldn’t say I’m all that good at. Like you’re good at asking questions, Tom, but you’ve been trained on it. Now you have some skills naturally, but I’ve also been trained on it. Where like, I’m just good at getting to like figuring out a problem or understanding something abstractly and asking questions to get down to something that can resolve it and doing it in a.

In a way that starts, and this was key in it was like, what’s the simplest thing first. Like have you rebooted right? Like let’s start simple. If that doesn’t work, then we move to the next level up. Don’t start with the most complicated solution. Potentially let’s start simple and build our way up. And, so as I moved into the career that I’m in now, I, I, and this is all probably to a detriment.

Tom Nixon (22:47.685)
Hm.

Chris Jimenez (22:59.426)
Mm -hmm.

Curtis Hays (23:11.232)
In a way that like, if I get a new sales call, it’s a new prospect that I’m talking to. I have a tendency to want to solve that problem for them while I’m on the phone call with them. Not bring them in as a customer, get them paying and then try to solve the problem. So I probably do educate too much and provide too much information in the beginning. But I would say that probably helps close some business too, because I’m earning trust and establishing a rapport.

Chris Jimenez (23:36.929)
You

Curtis Hays (23:39.008)
by being transparent, by trying to understand their problem, maybe providing a few solutions or an idea of what a solution might look like before I’m bringing them into any sort of sales funnel, let’s call it.

Tom Nixon (23:52.869)
Yeah. Yep. Chris, what are your thoughts on pitch decks and their relevance or importance in the sales process?

Chris Jimenez (24:01.678)
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a really great point that you both bring up with that. I think that pitch decks almost to me, they seem like something that’s just an expectation. Like it’s almost like when you’re doing business, you make a pitch deck, but then in the process, everyone’s creating pitch decks that don’t land. And they’re so worried about getting their narrative out that it’s not really even connecting with anyone. So you delivered a pitch, but who cares?

Like the, the clients go into the next meeting and they already kind of like, okay, I guess I’ll deal with them later. To, to, to your point though, much like with coaching, I have no idea what a client is bringing forward when I answered the phone. I go in there and I say, Hey, how’s it going? What’s on your mind today? And it could be literally anything. But when we get to the end of the session, we were able to make some progress because.

Not only am I listening to them, but I’m asking open -ended questions. I’m trying to learn the emotion behind the problem. And when we start to uncover that, and maybe they’re bringing you in to work on something, we just got to get more leads. Okay. Well, why are getting more leads more important, so important right now? Well, I mean, every company needs leads. Okay. Well, okay. Why do you need them this moment? And take a deep breath. They kind of…

realize they can come out of business mode for a minute and be a human being and be like, look, man, I, we really just need some help. I, my people are killing themselves trying to make this stuff work. I don’t know what to tell them anymore to motivate them. I’m trying to get them to see that what they’re doing is valuable. And I feel like I’m failing as a manager. okay. You feel like you’re failing is a lot different than get me leads. So when you’re working with people.

and you’re trying to understand what’s really going on, getting to the core emotion behind the problem by asking these questions where you’re not making assumptions about what they need, but asking them, what do you need? How can I help you? And then who knows where that can go? I mean, they can start opening up to you about all kinds of things. And maybe it’s even more stuff that’s outside of your scope, but the reality is you’re now connected. And the odds are that you’re probably going to make a better transaction with them.

Chris Jimenez (26:20.526)
because of that genuine, authentic moment together.

Tom Nixon (26:24.005)
Yeah. I, just a little homework here. So grab a pen and paper to jot this down if you can, if you’re not driving, but, wonder if you heard of this one, Chris. So I was trained in Sandler sales and the problem I come to realize about pitch decks is, and here’s where you go to Google. Don’t paint a seagull in your prospects picture. You ever heard that one, Chris?

Chris Jimenez (26:46.67)
I have not, no.

Tom Nixon (26:48.677)
So I’m not going to, it’s kind of a longer story, but it’s a very effective, I think real life story. If not, it’s a parable, but go Google that don’t paint a seagull in your client or your prospects picture. because sometimes the point of it, just to share that is that a lot of times you’re presenting a solution when you have a deck, right? You’re presenting solutions to a problem. The prospect doesn’t even have. So what’s the first thing they think of? I’m not being heard. This person doesn’t understand me.

Chris Jimenez (27:13.55)
Mm -hmm.

Chris Jimenez (27:17.07)
Yes.

Tom Nixon (27:17.893)
can’t even solve my problem, even though it’s possible and likely that you can. The message that you’re sending is they don’t understand what I’m going through right now. Right. So, all right. My last question, because we’re actually running into time is companies. So we’re talking, we’re focusing on sales and marketing, but this listening is a skill that I think crosses all sorts of business functions. Curtis mentioned that I’m

Chris Jimenez (27:26.35)
Mm -hmm. I like that.

Tom Nixon (27:46.085)
trained on it. I guess I’m trained on it or good on it or good at it, but here’s my practical application. And I want to get your advice, Chris, for cross -functional listening is I have a list of five to seven questions that are almost the same for every prospect meeting I take because they’re very open -ended. The client can interpret them like song lyrics any way they want. And it’s just open -ended kind of tell us where it hurts kind of how you got to, you know, I feel like I’m failing as a manager.

If I have five to seven questions that I’m committed to getting through, I don’t have time to, you know, paint the picture of the paint the seagull and the client’s picture. So what are companies losing out on when they’re not embracing a culture of listening first? And are there some practical things you would recommend to our listeners to get this integrated into their company tomorrow? Sales and marketing, HR, whatever it might be.

Chris Jimenez (28:23.754)
you

Chris Jimenez (28:37.241)
Yeah, great question. I think there’s two different approaches to this. So as an individual, I think there’s a way to check how well you’re listening by a little thing that I like to do on LinkedIn. So I’ll start with that. One thing you can do, if you’re not sure if you’re listening, you’re reading the social cues going on around you.

go scroll through your home feed on LinkedIn and look for posts that are almost laughably obvious, like toxic bosses are bad, okay? You look for those and you see that they have tens of thousands of reactions, comments, everything. Now, maybe before I say this, you would have been like, okay, yeah, toxic bosses are bad. But what’s important is to look

at the person who’s commenting on it. How did it get to your feet? People who are hurting use that as a method to be seen and heard. If you’re grazing past it and you’re like, more noise. No, Johnny is in trouble. Johnny’s feeling pain. He’s not probably being heard by his manager, probably not being respected by his teammates.

Tom Nixon (29:33.893)
Hmm.

Chris Jimenez (29:49.454)
probably feeling kind of invisible. So the last thing that he can do before he gives up on everything for his career is to like that post and say, I hope somebody sees this. Maybe sometimes it’s for bad reasons, but it’s still a cry for help. It’s somebody saying, please somebody listen to me. Nobody is listening. So as an individual, if you need to check how well you’re listening in your daily life, and you’re trying to find out how you even can help anyone, take a look at that.

See if there’s anybody in your network who feels unseen and unheard and doesn’t know what else to do. So that like is all they have left. So that’s what I would say for an individual. For a company, I think it’s important to model your core values. So every company starts going out there and saying that they respect people. Well, respect isn’t just opening the door for someone when they’re going through, that’s just being a human in society.

Tom Nixon (30:27.589)
Interesting. Yeah.

Chris Jimenez (30:48.622)
Respect is about making the space and time for a person. It’s hearing why as experts themselves, regardless of their role in the company, they’ve made it through their career to the point where they’re in a team with you. So sales team, sales leader, HR person, and another department lead that you’re meeting with, whoever it is, you are all bringing your experiences to the table and to make the space to slow things down and listen.

and explore without fear so that the core values of your company can actually be modeled. That’s really key. A company needs to model that stuff because otherwise you’re just saying, hey, we value listening. And then no one listens to you. It just makes everybody more angry. You gotta really lean into it if you’re gonna do this stuff.

Tom Nixon (31:29.125)
You

Tom Nixon (31:35.525)
Show me, don’t tell me. How many times do I say that in a day, Curtis?

Curtis Hays (31:38.736)
yeah, quite frequently.

Tom Nixon (31:40.997)
You got any final questions or thoughts for Chris?

Curtis Hays (31:44.928)
No, this, this has been great. You know, I think, there there’s a lot for me to, to learn here. I would say these are skills that I, I don’t, I I’ve had to learn, you know, over the years I’ve managed, anywhere from 12 to 20 people at different points in my career. Was I always carving out the space to be a good, a good listener and making time for them? Or was I worried about hitting numbers?

And, you know, the meeting that I personally had, in two days that I was prepping for and building reports for, and, you know, those types of things. So, it’s, it’s difficult and, I think seeking a coach to help you with that, seeking an accountability partner, being deliberate about carving out the right time for the right priorities, within your day. And if you’re not managing people.

Chris Jimenez (32:32.026)
Mm -hmm.

Curtis Hays (32:41.952)
You’re maybe managing customers, you maybe have teammates and those types of things. So you’re still, I think for the most part, most of us are working with other people throughout our day. And so, you know, interacting with those people in an appropriate way, listening appropriately, responding appropriately, and all those things are good skills always to continue to polish up on, continue to make sure you’re developing. So it’s, it’s been great to have you on today, Chris.

Chris Jimenez (33:10.678)
Yeah, thank you, Curtis. Thank you, Tom. Really appreciate it. I mean, really, we all have a choice in our day. We have a choice to know how we want to experience the world. Do we want to go through a day where we’re just angry?

feel invisible, all those negative emotions, or do we wanna open up a little bit and then end the day every day feeling good, that something good happened. Careers, work, I mean, careers, home, everything, right? It’s all part of a choice. And we all make these choices every day and how we show up and how we interact with other people to get value for both parties. And I think that if we all kind of raise that consciousness together and that awareness together,

Maybe these things don’t have to be so bad every day. Maybe we all can go to work and enjoy it and know that we helped another human being out.

Tom Nixon (34:00.485)
Love it. That’s a great. Well, go ahead.

Curtis Hays (34:01.056)
So, no, I was just going to ask Chris if it was a choice that you put chose happy behind you on the, for the podcast itself. I mean, you set up for those who are listening, you won’t understand this, but for those watching, but behind Chris is, is a frame picture frame with, with the words choose happy there sitting right behind him. so I’m, I’m, I’m assuming that was intentional.

Chris Jimenez (34:07.79)
Ew.

Tom Nixon (34:10.245)
She was happy.

Chris Jimenez (34:27.086)
Yeah.

Curtis Hays (34:30.56)
and as, as there is a reminder for you as well. So.

Chris Jimenez (34:31.949)
It was. Absolutely. That’s the first thing I see when I walk in this room every day and log on. And it’s a decision about how I want this day to go instead of worrying about how this day is going to treat me. Get that power back. Take control of how you interact with the world. And a lot of good things can open up.

Tom Nixon (34:45.477)
Love it.

Curtis Hays (34:47.04)
Yeah.

Tom Nixon (34:52.805)
Cool. All right. Well, my final thought, by the way, if you ever have lunch or coffee with somebody who has been Sandler trained, they’re going to ask you what’s new and exciting in your world. And so that’s not by luck. So I think that’s them training themselves to immediately turn the conversation to one in which the person you’re having coffee or lunch with feels like they’re being heard. They get to talk about themselves. Everybody’s got something new and exciting in the world. Sometimes you got to prompt them with the family.

Going on vacation this summer? That’s the sort of thing. So that’s a freebie. That’s one of your seven questions that you can have. We would ask you to share.

Curtis Hays (35:25.184)
What, what happens though, Tom, when two Sandler trained people sit down at coffee.

Tom Nixon (35:31.717)
They cross their arms. They you go first. No, you go first. you go first. you go first. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. So yes, the immovable object meets the unstoppable force. So speaking of unstoppable forces, we are now founded bull horns bulls eyes dot com. No, and in there, we also have a LinkedIn profile which we’d like you to follow. And what we’d like you to do for when you’re done listening to this episode, go.

Chris Jimenez (35:33.782)
So

Curtis Hays (35:42.112)
Right.

Tom Nixon (35:59.205)
follow us on LinkedIn, but more importantly in the post that we talk about this episode, enter into the comments, what’s new and exciting in your world? Tell us, here’s your chance to be heard. And if you’d like to be heard for something even more important with greater gravitas, put that in the comments. So going back to what Chris said, if you’re at your wits end and you have one last action to take before you lose your mind, tell us what’s on your mind. We want to hear. Sound good? All right, everyone.

Chris Jimenez (36:00.146)
Okay.

Tom Nixon (36:27.013)
Well, we’ll look for those comments on LinkedIn and we’ll see you at bullhorns and bullseyes .com and next time on Bullhorns and Bullseyes, the podcast.