Bullhorns & Bullseyes Podcast

Understanding Behaviors of the Target Customer

Guest: Terry Bean
April 2, 2024
Play Video about Terry Bean

Episode 18

Curtis Hays and Tom Nixon interview Terry Bean about the concept of behavior and its various applications to marketing and messaging. Terry explains how he follows a behavior assessment based on the four elements: air, earth, fire, and water, demonstrating how understanding these elements can help marketers tailor their messaging to different personality types. We also explore how behavior analysis can be used in workplace management and communication.


  • Understanding behavior can help marketers tailor messaging to different and distinct personality types.
  • The four elements (air, earth, fire, and water) can be used as a framework for understanding behavior.
  • Analyzing behavior can improve workplace management and communication.
  • Tailoring marketing tactics to different personality types can lead to higher engagement and conversions.
  • Tom: Is a Water type just like a Slytherin?!


https://trybean.com – Try Bean

Tom Nixon (00:01.416)
Curtis, I believe spring has sprung with this latest episode of Bullhorns and Bull’s Eyes. How’s it going?

Curtis Hays (00:07.9)
It’s going great. Yeah, you know, we had to turn in the weather there. I don’t know if we should really count on mother nature keeping us in this springtime. We still might get some colder weather, but we’ve got a great guest today who I know loves spring, loves water, loves to be out enjoying nature. So let’s talk to our guest today.

Tom Nixon (00:12.229)

Tom Nixon (00:20.38)
Oh, for sure.

Tom Nixon (00:33.028)
Let’s do it. You guys go way back. So, I’m gonna have you welcome him onto the show. How do you know Terry, who we’re gonna introduce here shortly?

Curtis Hays (00:41.852)
Yeah, let’s take a trip down memory lane. So Terry, I think I met Terry. I could be wrong, but I think it was in 2009 ish. And, uh, I think it was at Walsh college and he put on a clinic with maybe Charlie Wohlberg, it’s another good friend on a little known app called Twitter and how to use Twitter in your business.

Terry Bean (00:44.862)
I think I met Terry. I could be wrong, but I think it was in 2009-ish. That’s right. And I think it was at Waltz College. And he put on a clinic with maybe Charlie Wohlberg, another good friend. I don’t know.

Tom Nixon (01:01.348)

Tom Nixon (01:06.76)

Terry Bean (01:07.65)
I’m going to use Twitter in your business. Plus, Twitter is gone. Twitter’s gone. It doesn’t even exist anymore. So here I am at this training. I brought a couple of my colleagues with me from the agency I was with at the time and then got to know these guys and see them around Automation Alley back in the day. They were always doing training and coaching, and so it’s great to connect with Terri again. So I’m going to go ahead and turn this off. So I

Tom Nixon (01:09.412)
And of course Twitter is gone now, so… Ha ha ha!

Curtis Hays (01:11.3)
Twitter’s calling it doesn’t even exist anymore. So, uh, so here I am at this, this training. I brought a couple of my colleagues with me, uh, from the agency I was with at the time, and then got to know these guys and, uh, would see them around automation alley back at the day and they were always, you know, doing training and coaching. And so, you know, it’s, it’s great to connect with, with Terry, uh, Terry being again with, uh, with try being.

Terry Bean (01:36.238)
with TriBeam, is the company. And we were at Motor City Connect back in the day, which was like social media platform before social media was the best. Just the innovation that I was coming up with. But he’s the master guide, right, at TriBeam. Terry, welcome to the show. Tell us what you’re up to these days. Man, I appreciate you guys having me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, you know, it’s funny. We just celebrated Detroit Day, right?

Curtis Hays (01:37.88)
is the company, man, and you had Motor City Connect back in the day, which was like social media platform before social media was as big as it was today. I mean, just the innovation this guy was coming up with, but he’s the, the master guide, right? At, at tribe being so Terry, welcome to the show. Tell us what you’re up to these days.

Terry Bean (02:05.138)
to, I don’t know if we ever date shows, but you’re talking about spring, springing or sprunging or whatever. Uh, and so recently Detroit day, March 13th came and went and, you know, you talk about innovation and, uh, I, I claim responsibility for that being a thing now, right? Uh, there was a whole big movement on Twitter to get people talking about what they love about Detroit. And that kicked off about a dozen years ago.

Curtis Hays (02:24.455)

Terry Bean (02:34.462)
Uh, when that conversation wasn’t going to be joined in by nearly as many people as it is today. So that part was, that part was cool. And Motor City Connect was fun and Ted X Detroit’s been a really good time suck, if you will, over the last shit. We’re going to have year 16 here in 2024.

So yeah, it’s been a while, man. When Charlie Wahlberg called me in 2009 and said, let’s put on a TED program, I would not have foreseen having this conversation 16 years later, right? I was like, yeah, all right, that sounds fun, let’s do it. I’ve quit that group at least 74 times in the 15 years, dude, they drive me nuts, man. But we get cool stuff done every year. It always amazes me.

Tom Nixon (03:21.032)

Curtis Hays (03:21.396)
Thank you.

Curtis Hays (03:28.084)
Once I think I’m out, they pull me back in, right?

Terry Bean (03:30.603)
It’s exactly it. Man, the love of the day though. It’s just such a great event and Charlie does an expert job of curating that. He’s a smart man that Charlie Wahlberg.

Curtis Hays (03:43.068)
Yeah. Well, you’re, you’re a force in this, in this Detroit area. I mean, so much you’ve accomplished over the years and so much networking and connecting that you’ve done with, with professionals that it truly is admirable. Yeah.

Tom Nixon (03:44.005)
What the?

Terry Bean (03:56.911)
I appreciate that. Very kind. Very kind.

Tom Nixon (03:58.704)
Yeah. And that’s how I know. I wish I’d say no of you, Terry, because I can’t claim that we know each other really well. But, you know, you could popped out to my radar right around the same time. I at the time I was running an agency and we had this young up and comer named Brandon chestnut who was just enamored with all things social media is like you got to see this thing that Terry and Charlie are doing. So that’s how so, you know, I see you’ve had a very high profile ever since in part due to Ted X Detroit.

but also because of your training and your clinics. And then when we finally you said 16 years later, here we are. We’re talking about inviting you on to our podcast and then you suggest a topic that was a surprise to me. And you said I want to talk about behavior and I thought well, that sounds like one of my teachers back in grade school who wanted to talk to me about my behavior, but that’s not this. So what are we talking about? And how did you find yourself here based on the past that I’m familiar with?

Terry Bean (04:50.281)

Terry Bean (04:57.574)
You know, so I have a degree in psychology and a different degree in communications. So I have always been fascinated and intrigued by the human experience. And so about three and a half years ago, I’m going to show you, I had this piece of jewelry created and it’s a piece of turquoise and with some fire on top and some elemental water on the bottom.

And it reminds me of how I need to show up, right? When I’m on stage, I got to bring the fire. I got to put that in people’s bellies, light them up, get them ready to take on the world. When I’m not on stage, I got to remain cool. I got to be fluid. I got to just take things as they come, but persist. And about a year and a half ago, I really started thinking about

Personality tests, behavioral tests, whether we’re talking about disc or Myers-Briggs or Enneagram, they’re all great and I’m fascinated by all of them. But they’re not intuitive enough to be easily understood if I’m talking to someone, are you being a D or are you being an I, are you a three, are you being an ENTP, right? It doesn’t translate well. And so I was like, you know what does translate well?

water, earth, fire, air. I can understand those things and I can make a connection and a heartbeat. So I started mapping out all the different characteristics that I believed each of those elements would represent in human form. And I was talking to a buddy, a guy named Steve Lois, showed up. Steve, awesome leadership guy and in the staffing business just for both sides.

And I said, he said, what are you excited about? And I said, Oh man, I’m doing this and I’m mapping this out and I want to come up with an assessment and I want to replace disc or M B T I Myers-Briggs. Uh, M B whatever Myers-Briggs. Um, and he’s like, you must follow Jay Johnson. And I said, I don’t know who Jay Johnson is. He’s like, you’re going to love this. He’s created an assessment.

Terry Bean (07:16.406)
He’s already got coaching and training and presentation models, and he’s already built all this out. Went home, picked up LinkedIn, reached out to Jay, saw that he and I had been connected for eight years or so. Said, I just talked to Lois. He told me about what you’re doing. I’m fascinated. Tell me more. And a few months later, I ended up in his behavioral guide program. So he’s coaching coaches and trainers and…

consultants on how to implement this into their world to better serve their clients. So that’s my journey into a deeper understanding of behavior.

Tom Nixon (07:56.996)
Fascinating. Cool. I’m an INTJ, by the way. So, I just, I remember, I don’t know what that means, but I remember and somebody said, oh, that’s like the weird one. I’m like, oh, I thought that we weren’t qualifying it that way, but okay. So, it’s yeah, I know. Yep. Well, we want to talk specifically about how behavior works into the marketing ecosystem and how maybe understanding behavior better

Terry Bean (08:05.444)
That’s the weird one.

Terry Bean (08:11.409)
It’s the only weird one out of 16 too. It’s kind of amazing that you got that one.

Tom Nixon (08:26.968)
a brand say align more closely with various consumer avatars. So Curtis, you and I have talked a little bit, a lot of it actually about ideal customer profiles, right? So and then was it Mario that brought up the notion of an avatar the first time?

Curtis Hays (08:44.644)
It was, yeah, they call them dream avatars. Uh, we actually were talking about it yesterday on a call. And I had to say like Mario is my dream avatar, right? If I had a dream, you know, customer profile, uh, his organization is, is definitely it, but, uh, yeah, that’s, that’s what they call them there. The ICP is their dream avatar.

Terry Bean (09:05.398)
Nice. So not insane clown posse, just to be clear.

Tom Nixon (09:09.224)
Speaking of the 313, yeah, exactly. So, you know, we talk also a lot about monitoring. Sometimes I call them behaviors, but I think in the analytics world, it’s probably more like actions because we don’t know the things that are always driving the actions that people take. And so that’s why we wanna understand what are the emotions, what are the behaviors behind it? So are we on, is there something that we can learn from behavior that we can apply to the marketing world, Terry?

Curtis Hays (09:09.236)

Terry Bean (09:11.167)
Yeah, dude, get some Fago!

Terry Bean (09:37.726)
I think so, right? And what you really can learn is how you communicate to each of the different elements, because they’re going to want to receive information very differently based on what their primary driver is. So let’s do a quick rundown. Air, the primary driver is the drive to learn. They want to get information.

They probably end up wanting to share it. They’re the innovators. They’re the people that are coming up with new big ideas. They’re usually not very judgmental. They’re usually oftentimes in their own head. And you find air in very innovative leadership roles. Their weaknesses is tasks. Getting down doing the nitty-gritty.

gritty, doing the linear thinking stuff, not their specialty at all. So that’s one. Drive to learn. Earth is the drive to defend, right? They are the ones that are like, this is the way we’ve always done it, and it’s the only way we’re going to do it. Their status quo rules, we want it. They think linearly, and they get stuff done. Air and Earth are

perfect complements for each other. Air is going to drive Earth nuts, but they’re also going to pull them out of their shell. And I’m not suggesting that Earth people aren’t out of their shell. That’s not what I mean. But they’re going to challenge them to think differently and behave a little bit differently. Fire is the drive to acquire, right? They’re the ones that they want to win at all costs. They’re usually leaders.

but they’re also oftentimes fist pounding leaders, right? They’re short, they’re quick, they don’t care about all the details at all. Fire the people that you wanna give short, quick messages that paint a picture of them competing and winning the game. And if you really wanna speak to them, gamify things, challenge them, right? They’re the ones that are gonna go, you can’t tell me I can’t do it. And so they get a little hot from time to time.

Terry Bean (12:02.118)
And they can be decent people, but that’s not always their specialty. Water is the drive to bond, right? These are your people, people. And what was fascinating to me, and I just learned this week, potentially just in time for this show, is of the 30,000 plus assessments that Jay Johnson, co-founder of Behavioral Elements, has administered.

of the 30,000, 50%, half of people show up with water is their primary element, right? So that watery feel, right? That bond, that community base is a really good way and you got a good shot that someone you’re talking to is gonna have water as a pretty high element. 10% of those people are Earth, right? So the doers and the people that actually get stuff done.

Tom Nixon (12:38.692)

Terry Bean (13:00.727)
So there’s your framework, there’s your overview. Sorry for talking so long, but it’s kind of got to get out.

Tom Nixon (13:05.68)
No, it’s interesting to me because it does sort of align with the disc in Myers-Briggs, you know, because you’ve got these quadrants. You’ve got four elements, but you’re right. I think that’s easier to relate to Curtis. I don’t know if your daughters are into what’s it called? The Hogwarts. What am I thinking of Harry Potter? But there’s

Curtis Hays (13:24.796)
Harry Potter. They were at one time, yes, yeah.

Tom Nixon (13:28.316)
There’s no way my daughter would ever remember what disc stands for or any of the Myers-Briggs thing, but she could tell anyone who’s a Slytherin, who’s a Gryffindor, who’s the Hufflepuff, which I call Huff HR Puff and stuff in Ravenclaw, but she’s got the stuff committed to memory. So are your kids into that too? I do know. I actually searched it. It’s right here. Although I do know I’m a Slytherin, which sounded an awful light like, was it fire? I don’t know.

Terry Bean (13:44.002)
So do you, Tom.

Curtis Hays (13:54.3)
Well, they do it, that started with quizzes. I mean, there were these, you know, quizzes you could jump online. My kids weren’t on social media at the time they were taking those quizzes, but four or five years ago, their friends were sharing them and you could jump on a website and answer a bunch of personality questions and then they put you into one of the Gryffindor houses.

Terry Bean (14:13.25)
Which house are you? Yeah, for sure.

Curtis Hays (14:15.52)
Yeah. So that’s always fun. Um, actually my, my 15 year old spent an entire summer, two summers ago. She would have been 13 at the time studying NBTI, which NBTI is stands for negative bias, temperature instability. Uh, I think, right. Am I talking about the same thing? No, totally different. Is it NBTI then?

Terry Bean (14:36.078)
Totally different. No. Yeah. It’s M right. It’s, it’s, it’s the inventory type. Yeah. Type indicator. That’s it. Yeah.

Tom Nixon (14:38.908)
This is why. This is why it doesn’t work. All those acronyms run together.

Curtis Hays (14:42.736)
Yeah, it is M, see? Which Meyers-Briggs type indicator, type indicator. See man, proven wrong. All this time I thought she was saying NBTI, but she was really saying NBTI. And see, I didn’t even know it’s half of what she’s talking about. Like, and she can rattle off all the letters and she knew exactly what we all were. Um, she’d probably say, and I might agree, I’ve got quite a bit of earth.

Terry Bean (14:58.227)
Yeah, so yeah.

Curtis Hays (15:12.824)
and me based on what you’ve described, Terry, what do you think, Tom? What do you think you’d be?

Terry Bean (15:16.088)

Tom Nixon (15:17.128)
So, well, I was gonna ask, I was gonna ask Terry to pick up on what you just said, Curtis, is that we can’t remember all these acronyms, but we can certainly remember the four of the five elements, right in nature. So, how do then, because I think this is a great way. So, now you’ve demystified it or taken some of the science out of it, even though it’s still based in science, it made it more accessible to the average person. So, then how does a marketing person, once they first, I would imagine they’ve got to do some sort of study and analysis on their

Curtis Hays (15:28.185)

Tom Nixon (15:45.804)
I dream or the ideal client persona and avatar and then how do we take what we know about them and apply it to the marketing?

Terry Bean (15:52.694)
So it’s really about the messaging, right? It’s about the content that you put out. So if you, in the challenges, you’re gonna find fire in all walks of life. You’re gonna find air in all walks of life. So it’s not so categorically clear that you could just say, oh, well, all people that are engineers are earth and all people that are salespeople are fire.

So that’s the challenging part. But if you recognize, especially if you’re a product-driven organization, there are certain types of people that are going to be more likely to be called toward your product. And so if your product is something that’s going to help people stay in the status quo and stay very, very linear and keep moving, and even the service side of it, but keep moving at a nice clip and a nice progress.

you know, you’re speaking to an Earth person, you’re gonna wanna give them all the details, right? They want all the information. They’re the ones that actually are likely to read the agreement that everyone else just clicks, yeah, I’ve read this agreement, right? They’re the ones that are gonna read it, you know? So it’s a very different thing, whereas compared to a fire person, fire person wants bullet points, right? Short, quick.

don’t have time for this, moving on to winning something else. And so you’re going to communicate and speak to something different. You’re speaking to a fire person. This is going to help you win. You’re speaking to a water person. This is going to help you build relationships, because this is going to help serve humanity. This is going to help you care and help others care. So it’s really about the languaging.

And in the message that we put together that matters, that’s going to speak to these different personality types. Error, obviously, we’re gonna help you learn some stuff, man. We’re gonna help you grow. We’re gonna help you innovate.

Curtis Hays (17:56.357)

Tom Nixon (17:59.752)
Okay, I have a quick quiz for you, Terry. I’m gonna describe two people. This is not scientific, but I want you to guess where what element we’d be most driven by. So, the first person is more of a creative type, leans into emotions quite a bit, very cautious in decision making though, and maybe analyzes things to death.

Terry Bean (18:27.49)

Tom Nixon (18:28.208)
that would be me a Slytherin. Okay, so first of all, what does that sound like to you? What element do you think I based on what little you know, I know there’s more science behind it.

Curtis Hays (18:32.708)

Terry Bean (18:32.795)

Terry Bean (18:42.926)
So here’s what I can tell you. The creative side is usually error-related. And the over-analysis, that can fall under water, because water people tend to have a difficult time making decisions quickly. But the analysis piece could be related to Earth, too. So I’d have to understand a little bit of how it shows up, because there is a procedural process for everything in that world.

And then I forgot what the third thing you said was now.

Tom Nixon (19:17.988)
I would say leans into the emotions more than say, even though analytical, I think what’s driving analysis here, you’re going to give us some free psychotherapy today is an emotion based reason. So it’s not because I love analyzing. It’s the fear of getting it wrong. So that emotion is driving the analysis. So

Terry Bean (19:28.811)
Yeah, sure.

Curtis Hays (19:29.174)

Terry Bean (19:39.474)
That could be a water thing too. So it depends on what’s the fear, right? Is the fear of looking wrong and looking silly in front of people? So it’s really what’s behind the fear that matters. Or is it the fear of wasting time, energy, money, effort, whatever the case may be? Because those are very different drivers that can still show up as an emotion we’ll label as fear.

Tom Nixon (20:05.708)
Okay, so this other person, hypothetical person, is a Ravenclaw. This is where you might find the most brainiest students. Um, hard working, uh, skill for learning. I would say this person is, uh, more of an engineering mindset and analytical, um, with strong attention to detail, but does not like tasks.

Terry Bean (20:29.786)
Nice, nice, nice. So it’s a rare combination where you see people that are air and earth combined, right? And so if I could back up for half a second, you have a primary driver, right? You’re gonna have one that you score higher than in all the other categories. But that doesn’t mean that you’re best at the thing that you’re highest at and you’re worst at the thing you’re lowest at,

The thing you’re highest at doesn’t take as much energy and effort for you to do. The thing that you’re lowest at is probably going to suck the life audio a little bit to do. My, for me, my earth is a 0.25. And I just found out that the lowest score you can get in an area. 0.25. And of the 30,000, there was 1.25 in the whole shooting match. Hi.

Tom Nixon (21:27.068)
That’s the weird one. Yes. So, the person I was describing, though, was Curtis. I hope I get. Yeah, go ahead. I hope I got something relatively close. Curtis. Yeah.

Terry Bean (21:28.254)
Yeah, that’s me. I am the weird one. That’s so…

I figured as much.

Curtis Hays (21:37.093)
It sounds pretty accurate.

Terry Bean (21:38.962)
It doesn’t like the task side. So the rest of it, the linear piece, right, the going and the analysis, it depends on how that’s being, what’s driving it and how it’s showing up. But highly analytical people fall under earth, they fall under air, and they also fall under fire, right? So again, it’s a matter of what that piece is. That task.

piece though that getting stuff done is as earthy as it gets. So if you’re avoiding that piece, you know, you’re likely air, maybe fire. And obviously Ravenclaw, good lord.

Tom Nixon (22:18.357)
in Ravenclaw.

Curtis Hays (22:22.176)

Tom Nixon (22:23.964)
Curtis, where did I get it wrong? Go ahead, correct the record.

Curtis Hays (22:26.18)
No, all that’s pretty accurate. I would say, uh, as far as the task thing goes, my preference has always been what, what I enjoy is tasks that come at me that I can resolve quickly. What I don’t like are projects where tasks are required over a longer period of time that I might have a struggle with the attention span or it’s a procrastination thing.

Tom Nixon (22:47.887)

Curtis Hays (22:54.76)
But I thrive in my inbox, which was probably why back in the olden days, I was good as a help desk person because I take all these customers’ pull requests in, I was just excited to solve a customer problem and move on to the next one. And there was a big sort of short win. And that’s where the defender sort of hit with me, Terry, of like, I was sort of that defender in that world of like just making sure everybody was protected. Everybody’s stuff was up and running. And I thrived in that environment.

Tom Nixon (22:57.693)

Tom Nixon (23:23.141)
That’s interesting.

Terry Bean (23:23.59)
Yeah, but that short wind piece that I’m going to get to it, I’m going to get it done, and I’m going to get over it and get on with it. That’s fire. That’s fire all day. That’s fire all day. So I’m going to I’m going to for you and your audience. Try being T R Y B E A N dot com slash behavioral elements. Right. And this is a plug for

Curtis Hays (23:28.868)
Yeah. Wire. Yeah. Interesting.

Curtis Hays (23:42.147)

Curtis Hays (23:46.588)
Okay, we’ll put this in the show notes. We’ll put this in the show notes too.

Terry Bean (23:51.074)
plug for the assessment more than for Terry, but in a gift to anyone listening, go figure out the free version will tell you very specifically what your primary element is, right? The paid version, which is the exact same, right? It’s the exact same test, takes about 10 minutes. $75 not only tells you how each of the four show up in your world, but gives you very

Curtis Hays (23:53.938)

Terry Bean (24:20.45)
prescriptive information as to how to best utilize it.

Tom Nixon (24:25.16)
So I have a question for you both on how we can weaponize or put this into action. So it’s a two parter on the one hand for Terry and whoever goes first, but on the one hand for Terry, how would you go out and get this sort of data at scale about a customer or market if there is such a way to do that? And then my question for Curtis is what would you need as an output from Terry’s work to say, OK, this is how we’re going to put this into an action plan?

Curtis Hays (24:25.225)

Tom Nixon (24:53.928)
to align our marketing messaging. I guess that would be my role, but then the marketing mechanism, the tactics, the plan and the strategy. So who wants to go first?

Terry Bean (25:07.71)
I’ll go, I’ll go. It’s an interesting question, right? I like the idea where your head is. I don’t know what a significant sample size is in this world to be able to say with certainty, hey, you know, 67% of CEOs are fire and 20% are air and 3% are earth. I don’t, so I don’t know.

How many CEOs do you have to have take the test to be able to speak to that? How many marketing directors, right? So I don’t know what that bucket size looks like. But for me, it would be really, really interesting to partner with some associations and have them take the assessment. And we collect data on company and position in company. So we have that information. I think personally, I think that

impacts our bounce rate. I think people go in and the first sheet you see is give me all this information, right? And I think people probably bounce out of that fairly quickly. I know they do. But I like the idea of gathering that intel and being able to present it in a way that actually has some meaning. One of my goals for 2024 is to start speaking on this topic.

to CEO groups here locally and around the nation. And of course, getting them to take the assessment. And then so we can add to that data pile.

Tom Nixon (26:43.664)
Yeah, I just before you answer Curtis, I would just comment like in the B2B world. Maybe it’s not as difficult. I don’t know if you’d have to canvas as many you could probably come up with 10 ideal client personas for me or for Curtis, right? He’s got the one Mario go analyze Mario and say give me more people like him. What makes him tick? What will he respond to etc? So I think in the B2B world, it’s a little bit easier because you don’t need such scale, but sorry. So let’s say Terry does what he does brings you back some sort of avatar based on the

four elements, what would you need to actionize that, Curtis?

Curtis Hays (27:16.56)
Yeah, Terry mentioned some things earlier, you know, it’s like how you maybe present information to these people is really important. So I think you said that the fire people need bullets, right? So kind of outline that. Tom, you and I are working on a strategy right now for a client where we’re trying to decide like how, how do they consume information? Is it video? Is it written? If it’s written, is it aspirational or is it technical? There’s some combination of that. And so not just in, you know,

Terry Bean (27:43.45)
of that. And so, not just in what you’re writing, of course incorporating our storytelling.

Curtis Hays (27:46.748)
What you’re writing, and of course incorporating our storytelling that we’ve talked about, and why, how, what, and meeting those users or consumers where they’re at, but also in how you present the information to them. So it’s digestible to those personality types. Hey, these types of individual who meet your avatar, like long paragraphs, they’re willing to read. These people need it summarized with bullets.

These people need visuals. And so I think it can really help to improve engagement with your content, which at the end of the day is just gonna lead to higher conversions and all those other metrics that we’re measuring and taking a look at and always trying to improve.

Terry Bean (28:26.15)
which at the end of the day is just gonna lead to higher conversions and all those other metrics that would make a really big difference.

Tom Nixon (28:35.204)
Yep. I can envision that the CEO who I think would be a high D in the desk. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but just needs the facts quickly. And I’m going to make a decision. Like if that’s who I was targeting. And I think I might be tempted to do YouTube pre-roll because I in six seconds or less, you’re either going to get them or you’re not. Is right. So there’s an example of how you would take something. And I’m not saying that’s the right thing, but that’s a thing that you could do, Terry.

Curtis Hays (28:54.468)

Terry Bean (29:01.942)
I think you’re spot on about that, right? And again, the clearer we get on who we’re talking to, the more likely we are to be able to position our message in a way that they’ll actually hear it. So I love that thought process. And you’re right about disk and the high D aligning very well the fire, right? So I’ve spent more time reviewing disk to see what the overlaps are.

You know, so you talk about aspirational content, that stuff’s going to work really well with air. It’s going to work really well with water, really well. Earth is going to call BS on it in a heartbeat. Right. And fire may be open to it, but maybe not. That’ll be the time when fire all of a sudden gets interested in the facts. Right. All right. Well, now you got to prove it.

Tom Nixon (29:57.764)
Yep. Alright. Well, final quiz before we let you go. This is the lightning round. So, this is question is for both of you. Whoever thinks they know the answer first, yell out my name which is Tom and then whoever gets this right goes on to our uh bonus round at the end for you a chance of fabulous prizes. Okay. You’ve mentioned four elements. There are actually five elements in the Chinese uh elements. I don’t know if you know what it is exactly that purify one’s being. What is the fifth element? Go.

Terry Bean (30:03.084)

Terry Bean (30:27.35)
Tom, I’m gonna take a staggering guess at it, but I think it’s metal.

Tom Nixon (30:28.562)

Tom Nixon (30:34.38)

Curtis Hays (30:43.321)

Terry Bean (30:45.558)
Yes. See ya, Curtis. Give me that hat. I’m taking the hat. It’s part of the show.

Curtis Hays (30:54.512)

Terry Bean (30:56.808)
I wish I wouldn’t know.

Tom Nixon (30:58.328)
This was awesome. People can learn more at tribean.com. We will put the specific link to the assessment in the show notes. What’s your final message for people who are starting to resonate with what you’re saying and they want to put some of this into action? It’s not just for marketing, right? It’s for workplace management, etc. So where else does this apply? Give us your final word.

Terry Bean (31:18.422)
So you know what, it’s really great for just communication in general. You want to deal with difficult conversations, understanding where people are coming from is going to help you do that. It’s going to help you relate to people more effectively too. And my entire world’s been relationship building and maintaining for 25 years. So that’s why this made so much sense to me. I can see through people now. And that’s really, really cool.

So it’s good for leadership, it’s good for management, it’s good for communicating, it’s good for marketing, and it’s really good to understand ourselves and that behavior is a choice and we get to choose to behave intelligently when we understand these things.

Tom Nixon (32:01.616)
love it. Curtis, I’ll give you a final. This really is your final word because you’re leaving us on the podcast this week. So what do you want to say as you depart?

Curtis Hays (32:08.257)
I’m all done, all done. As I depart, well, if there was anyone better to bring on, there’s anyone better to bring on about building stronger relationships, you know, it’s definitely Terry and he’s done that so many different ways and I can see how all of this, you know, connects and how you could definitely use this in marketing.

Terry Bean (32:15.702)
Dumb Oh

Curtis Hays (32:36.593)
space. So appreciate all that you’ve shared with us here today, Terry, and maybe soon we’ll have you back on again. Yeah.

Terry Bean (32:39.574)
all that you shared with us here today, and maybe soon we’ll have you back on again. Love it. I would love it.

Tom Nixon (32:46.876)
Yep. Great connector going back to the early days of Motor City Connect. So great to connect with you and just real quick. You guys know each other a little more personally, right? Not just professionally. You guys were talking about going out on the boat or something.

Curtis Hays (32:59.908)
Well, so I have a boat and love being out on the lake. I’m a big fisherman and Terry in the summertime I noticed puts a lot of social media content while he’s, you got a paddle board maybe or canoe you’re out on?

Terry Bean (33:04.206)
Being out on the lake, I’m a lake fisherman. And Terry, in the summertime, I noticed there’s a lot of social media content. But have you got a paddleboard, maybe? Or a boat or a paddleboard? Yeah, I have a pontoon and a paddleboard. But yeah, yeah.

Curtis Hays (33:18.092)
Okay. Yeah. So he’s, he’s recording from his dock and you know, doing all kinds of fun stuff, making everybody jealous that he’s out on the lake, he was making me jealous.

Tom Nixon (33:27.121)

Terry Bean (33:27.403)
That’s the entire goal. That’s it. Like, haha, you suckers are in an office? Check this out. I’m officin’ right here on the pontoon today. I honest-

Tom Nixon (33:32.156)

Curtis Hays (33:34.856)
That’s that aspirational content we’re talking about.

Tom Nixon (33:37.9)

Terry Bean (33:38.258)
I tried man. I’ve tried to offer coaching sessions on the boat. I don’t know why people don’t take me up on it, man. I would be like, that would be perfect for me. We’ll do some work. We’ll jump in the lake. We’ll do some work. We’ll jump in the lake. We’ll have a cold pop, jump in the lake, do some work. Yeah.

Tom Nixon (33:55.052)
Yeah. Well, now that spring has sprung, like we said, that means summer is gonna soon simmer. So, we’ll do our next show out at Studio C. Get it on your boat. Alright. Cool. Alright. Come back anytime, Terry Curtis. Uh have a good life. We’ll see you someday in the future perhaps. To the rest of you. Thank you and some of us will see you next week here on Bullhorns and Bullseyes.

Terry Bean (34:04.59)
Yeah, please. Welcome to it.

Listen anywhere:

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Additional episodes:

Josh Donnelly Episode 15

Episode 15: What Is Funnel-Driven Storytelling?

Josh Donnelly, founder of Donco Marketing, demonstrates how storytelling can be used to guide users through the marketing funnel and create a more intentional user experience.

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Episode 7: The Entrepreneur's Journey

A familiar face and name joins the podcast this week, as Stefanie Hays (Curtis's better half) joins the show to share her journey as an "accidental" entrepreneur.

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Episode 4: Going Meta on Bullhorns and Bullseyes

In a very "meta" episode, Curtis and Tom discuss the meaning behind "Bullhorns and Bullseyes." What are some examples of "bullhorn" tactics, and what are some examples of "bullseye" methodologies?

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